Jazz Parent

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Good luck, JazzMom.

Many of us would want to knock some sense into our teenage selves if we could travel back in time. I used to hate college entrance essay questions: "what will you be doing ten years from now?". I had no clue and I didn't want to even think about the future. I hope your son thinks about that more seriously than I did.

[randalljazz]

http://www.jazzmom.net/

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by randalljazz

http://www.jazzmom.net/

That's awesome. Go, Melissa, go!

[cosmic gumbo]

I know at least a couple dummies who bought a DJ system and some lights, and they work more, and make more money than most of the musicians I know. Maybe they aren't dummies. No education required.

[Space Pickle]

Originally Posted by JazzMom

to big daddy love handles,
yes , my kids do bicker but not this bad. the second one is a tuba player and will definitely not be applying to conservatories. as for the guitarist who is applying to them...what a week it has been of auditions. I am exhausted and I only did the driving. today's was perfect though and he walked out with a smile. plus, its a state school so it costs 1/3 of the private ones. phew, I can breathe a sigh of relief and still have money left to treat myself to something (small like a beer not a mercedes!). When I was at the conservatories I observed the level of intensity among the student's and their devotion to their music. I, also, however, observed what i would call "ignorant bliss". where are all of these children planning to work? They or their parents are spending over $50k per year for them to realize their dream and I fear for the moment when they wake up from this dream. For now I am glad today went well and I can now work on the financial aid part of the process.
I really appreciate all of this information, from everyone.

Hey. I don't know if you're still reading this thread, but here's my take.

I graduated from pretty much the best jazz program in Canada last spring. I'm currently living back at home, working on saving up money to get out on my own. I owe a whole bunch of money on student loans.

You're right in your assessment that there are way more music students than there are jobs in the market, and the reality is that music college/university/education in general is a bit of a scam. In Canada there are roughly 600 first-year seats available for post-secondary jazz performance courses but only a small amount (maybe 20 or 30 in the entire country) of students who are truly great players, so the fact is that everyone else who attends these programs are just poor to average players who have potential. These average players are allowed to attend because the school needs a certain headcount in order to run their music department. The best example of this that I can think of is Berklee. AFIAK tution is in the $20k range (don't quote me on that) and is non-refundable. So basically they're counting on having a ton of students sign up for first year and then drop out.

However, if you're one of the few elite highly sought-after students it's pretty good. Music college is unfortunately run like sports college, so the schools will compete fiercely with each other to get students to attend (because a music program is only as good as it's students). That expensive 20k tuition? Waived. (I knew a guy who's son got a free pass to Berklee. The kid was a brilliant guitarist) Need a new instrument? No problem. New computer with the latest recording/composing software. Sure.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if your son wants to go to music he needs to make himself into a good enough player that the schools will start throwing money at him to attend.

I haven't heard your son play, but if he's "merely" an average player you might want to hold off on the music school for a year or two and get him lessons. I'm not talking about the hacks at the local music store, I mean finding a real master teach who can mentor him. The best thing that ever happened in my guitar career was when my dad found out I was getting serious about music he asked a friend who had played in the Toronto Symphony Orchestra who the best guitar teacher was and I got a couple years or amazing lessons.

I may sound kind of jaded about music school but I did have a good time and I'm glad I went because it gave me a lot of opportunities to actually jam and perform, which is a really important part of the learning process. Now that I'm back home I see so many players who will never get beyond amateur status just because they don't have many chances to get out there and play.

Also I don't think it would be a good idea to send your son to some average school. Jazz programs can be huge moneymakers for universities which is why most schools seem to have them, but not all jazz programs are created equal. You should find out which are the best schools and work on getting into those, because a performance degree is worthless - the degree isn't going to get you work, your playing is, and as a young player the odds of your playing being good decrease significantly if you don't go to a good school where you can be developed properly. If I was looking at attending jazz undergrad in the US I would be looking at Berklee, Eastman, Manhattan School of Music, New England Conservatory, Texas A&M or University of Indiana to name a few. I would be very choosy and only go if a good school offered me a good scholarship. If I didn't get that I'd spend the year practising and jamming my heart out and try again next year.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I can sympathize with what you're going through here a bit. I'll post again if I think of anything else relevant to add, or if you have any questions.

[Bloomworks]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I know at least a couple dummies who bought a DJ system and some lights, and they work more, and make more money than most of the musicians I know. Maybe they aren't dummies. No education required.

I've seen that happen many times at wedding gigs, where we played the ceremony and cocktail hour, and the DJ played the dance party part of the evening. It's way cheaper than a live band.

However, I must reiterate that I play music because that's who I am in life, not because of any financial considerations. Against all odds I make a living as a musician.

Everyone knows that being a musician is a difficult career and life choice. I would not recommend being a musician to 99.99% of my students!!

[Drumbler]

Great post, Space Pickle.

That's some really good advice.

I hope JazzMom and son read it.

[doruondun]

For me, its your son's desicion to choose music or other jobs to earn money, not yours... If he really loves jazz and have courage to face with his future by playing jazz, he will definately earn money from his music... But if he hesitates, then help him to find other areas to work, but never let him to stop playing guitar... Maybe he could decide to go back in to the jazz bussiness in later years (in his 30s 40s) after having enough experience.

[doruondun]

If everybody want to earn money from "normal" jobs, then the art will getting dull... What is normal?

[abracadabra]

Originally Posted by doruondun

For me, its your son's desicion to choose music or other jobs to earn money, not yours...

Not entirely, especially if jazzmom has to put up the money for it. I wouldn't stump up the cash for my kids to become racing drivers, for example, as most racing drivers don't make any money, only the ones at the top.

[JazzMom]

I think its not just the program but also the "feel" you get when at these conservatories. I loved NEC, SUNY Purchase (Todd Coolman is director) and I liked Peabody. NYU was okay and I hear John Scofield is not there often anyway. Plus, my son does have a great private teacher who guides him through auditions, decisions, performances, etc.
I really hate to crush a dream and deny him his passion and the first 2 years of college are wasted on stupid courses anyway. so why not let him do what he loves and see if he is getting the results he expected?
I will evaluate faculty, cost, location (trips back to home on occasion, etc) and program. I think it is impossible to get a "placement" rate from conservatories.
btw, I am not the jazzmom with the website. I only wish I had her talent. Sorry for any confusion. I didn't know what else to call myself...

[doruondun]

Originally Posted by abracadabra

Not entirely, especially if jazzmom has to put up the money for it. I wouldn't stump up the cash for my kids to become racing drivers, for example, as most racing drivers don't make any money, only the ones at the top.

Ok, but parents should always support their children if they are able to... Thats what makes parents a parent. A parent can share his/her knowledge & experience with their child's dreams, but the child should have his/her own experinence, if the child has a dream, then he should see by his own, if he get stuck or not... Otherwise, discontinued dreams would hunt him in his entire life... But ofcourse, parents should watch their children if they are really trying hard!

Btw its "music", not a competition or racing... In music you should race with yourself to go further, not with the others...

[abracadabra]

Originally Posted by doruondun

Ok, but parents should always support their children if they are able to... Thats what makes parents a parent. A parent can share his/her knowledge & experience with their child's dreams, but the child should have his/her own experinence, if the child has a dream, then he should see by his own, if he get stuck or not... Otherwise, discontinued dreams would hunt him in his entire life... But ofcourse, parents should watch their children if they are really trying hard!

Btw its "music", not a competition or racing... In music you should race with yourself to go further, not with the others...

I agree with your first comment, but not the second. I don't mean that music is a competition in the same way as sports (I just used the racing analogy as an example of what I would be cautious about paying for) but the market can only absorb a certain amount of players at various levels. So it is competitive in a way. If you don't make it as a top pro, which is very unlikely anyway, then you have other options moving down the food chain, and at each level there is competition. Competition for gigs, competition for students, competition for teaching posts, etc.

Obviously as a parent you have to gauge your support for the dreams of your children on their aptitude. It wouldn't make sense to encourage an average jazz student to push to acheive their dream of becoming a jazz star when their obvious talent is in mathematics. I mean this would be a tough situation to deal with, but you get my point.

Nothing wrong with having dreams, but at the most ridiculous end of the scale, look at the endless parade of no-hopers who can't sing one note in tune but whose families encourage them to realise their dream of becoming the next American Idol (if you can bear to watch!), and who end up getting ridiculed on national TV.

To jazzmom, good luck for both you and your son. It sounds like he already has a good foundation and will end up an accomplished musician whichever road you and he choose.

[bruceshannon]

It's nice that you show such an interest in his music!

Yes, a career in music is tough... unless he ends up being one of the miniscule number of players that make a full time living from creative jazz / improvised music he'll need to diversify his music business. For most of us this means a combination of commercial gigs and teaching (schools / private students). Having a music teaching qualification would be useful...

It is really important early on to be able to do the business side of music... this means being professional in your presentation, skills and attitude and doing the standard business things like marketing / networking etc.

All the best.

[Jazzyteach65]

Wow, how did this slip by me?

This is a situation that is dear to me. Right after high school I tried cullinary school and had my parents' full backing. Then I got the oppurtunity to go to AS of M M (American School of Modern Music in Paris) to study jazz. Then I came back to the states and took private lessons then went to UNT, after that I moved to Vegas and began to study under some real masters. Then I got ill for two years and was miserable. My life felt it had no direction, nothing I enjoyed. I got well, began studying and practicing again and realized the following: for the rest of my life, I will study and practice jazz. The whole process of finding your improvisational voice is a lifelong journey of spiritual growth.

I know plenty of great players who can't get work playing in this city (legendary organist Ronnie Foster, Miles Davis pianist Vernell Brown) and I tried the whole jazz combo thing, it is fierce competition ALL around. Thankfully I can still fall back on my teaching career, but if the economy continues and the art programs shut down, I'm out of luck. A scary thought I'd rather not think about

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

Wow, how did this slip by me?

This is a situation that is dear to me. Right after high school I tried cullinary school and had my parents' full backing. Then I got the oppurtunity to go to AS of M M (American School of Modern Music in Paris) to study jazz. Then I came back to the states and took private lessons then went to UNT, after that I moved to Vegas and began to study under some real masters. Then I got ill for two years and was miserable. My life felt it had no direction, nothing I enjoyed. I got well, began studying and practicing again and realized the following: for the rest of my life, I will study and practice jazz. The whole process of finding your improvisational voice is a lifelong journey of spiritual growth.

I know plenty of great players who can't get work playing in this city (legendary organist Ronnie Foster, Miles Davis pianist Vernell Brown) and I tried the whole jazz combo thing, it is fierce competition ALL around. Thankfully I can still fall back on my teaching career, but if the economy continues and the art programs shut down, I'm out of luck. A scary thought I'd rather not think about

I'm unclear as to how you feel about a student pursuing a performance major in jazz.

Are you recommending it?

Your opinion is appreciated.

[Jazzyteach65]

Drumbler,

I'm reccomending to go with one's heart. It makes me happy to be able to study and practice improvised melodies over fixed harmony, and though I'm not a performer, I have had enough schooling and experience to have become a teacher, which in my opinion is our duty to keep this music alive.

Would I receommend studying it in a higher education establishment, expecting steady income? No. I can tell you this much, if I were working in retail, business or food, ect I would LOSE MY MIND!

[82Benedetto]

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

Drumbler,

I'm reccomending to go with one's heart. It makes me happy to be able to study and practice improvised melodies over fixed harmony, and though I'm not a performer, I have had enough schooling and experience to have become a teacher, which in my opinion is our duty to keep this music alive.

Would I receommend studying it in a higher education establishment, expecting steady income? No. I can tell you this much, if I were working in retail, business or food, ect I would LOSE MY MIND!

How do you know you'd lose your mind if you've not tried most of those professions?