Frustrated jazz guitar beginner

guitar freek · #1 01-08-2010, 03:58 PM

Messed around with guitars off and on for many years.This time I won't give up almost 68 years young. Just got hooked on jazz and purchased an Ibanez AF125. Fitted Rotosound flatwound 11,s but cannot get the smooth mellow sound that I am after. Any suggestions?
Thanks in anticipation
GUITAR FREEK !!!!!!!!

mr. beaumont · #2 01-08-2010, 04:06 PM

what's the amp? how's the EQ set?

i like to have the amp's EQ set flat, roll off a little bit of tone on the guitar, and use the neck pickup. that usually does it on just about any guitar....but let me know your particular situation.

derek · #3 01-08-2010, 05:42 PM

A bit of a poser for sure. Flats on that guitar, using the neck pup with the tone rolled off should get you right in the middle of the traditional jazz guitar sound. Amp should be clean.

mr. beaumont · #4 01-08-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek

A bit of a poser for sure.

Que?

goshawk · #5 01-08-2010, 06:28 PM

I think he meant the question is a "poser," because an AF125 with flats should deliver a nice jazz sound.

In addition to playing with the EQ on the amp, which is probably the easiest place to start, maybe try heavier strings?

zonedout245 · #6 01-08-2010, 07:14 PM

Is the guitar on the neck pickup with the tone halfway, volume 3/4 way or more? It could be the amp settings. The new equipment probably just needs some getting used to. New gear can be frustrating but once you learn how to navigate the controls you'll try extra hard to keep it sounding the way you wanted it to.

whippersnapper · #7 01-08-2010, 07:42 PM

Relax...

Jazz tone comes from the fingers.

If you have just started learning Jazz Wes Montgomery's L-5 isn't gonna make you sound like him.

If you are rolling down the tone on your guitar and have it on the neck up I can't see you having a bad sound. Just be patient and when you have been playing Jazz a few months and your touch and technqiue has adapted you will naturally sound better.

pierre richard · #8 01-08-2010, 07:45 PM

there you are whipersnapper..

it's not the instrument but the player..

and it takes time....

time on the instrument...pierre

abracadabra · #9 01-09-2010, 02:25 PM

I have an AF105 and doing what Mr B says makes it sound sweet. No matter how I play!

vsaumarez · #10 01-09-2010, 03:26 PM

The only way I have been able to achieve super warmth is with recording, and using a combination of EQ and reverb. Using amp tone controls has a "what you gain in one spectrum you lose in another" problem.

derek · #11 01-10-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goshawk

I think he meant the question is a "poser," because an AF125 with flats should deliver a nice jazz sound.

In addition to playing with the EQ on the amp, which is probably the easiest place to start, maybe try heavier strings?

Yes, that is what I meant, sorry I wasn't clear. Should be able to get the sound you are looking for with that guitar.

guitar freek · #12 01-12-2010, 06:09 PM

Thankyou guys job well done . Success

Hoopskidoodle · #13 01-12-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitar freek

Messed around with guitars off and on for many years.This time I won't give up almost 68 years young. Just got hooked on jazz and purchased an Ibanez AF125. Fitted Rotosound flatwound 11,s but cannot get the smooth mellow sound that I am after. Any suggestions?
Thanks in anticipation
GUITAR FREEK !!!!!!!!

Do you have a tube amp? I have an Ibanez AFS75T (w/ Stew-Mac Golden Age pups, a rosewood bridge and a trapeze tailpiece.) I had a similar experience trying to get jazzy tones out of it until I bought a humble little Fender Champion 600 amp. Now, it sounds buttery (playing through the neck pup, with the tone rolled off on Thomasik Jazz Swing 12s.)

Your AF125 is good to go as is. If I'm not mistaken, it has Super 58 pups, which are none too shabby. Had I not gotten the AFS75T for next to nothing, I probably would have opted for an AF125.

guitar freek · #14 01-13-2010, 05:39 PM

Anyone heard of ROBERTS STRINGS?

gitmike2 · #15 01-13-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

what's the amp? how's the EQ set?

i like to have the amp's EQ set flat, roll off a little bit of tone on the guitar, and use the neck pickup. that usually does it on just about any guitar....but let me know your particular situation.

what does setting an amp's EQ flat mean?

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #16 01-13-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitmike2

what does setting an amp's EQ flat mean?

Setting the bass, treble, mid controls at "zero". What ever zero is for your amp. Note that on some amps, that's questionable. The Blackface Twin Reverb has scooped mids, so you'd have to dial it up to get to zero

gitmike2 · #17 01-13-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Setting the bass, treble, mid controls at "zero". What ever zero is for your amp. Note that on some amps, that's questionable. The Blackface Twin Reverb has scooped mids, so you'd have to dial it up to get to zero

thanks,

Modalguru · #18 01-14-2010, 02:58 AM

Hi,

it is very important to use the right pick for jazz. First of all, it has to be a thick one. Use a Dunlop Delrin 2mm, or a Jazz III or a Dugain pick made of horn.

Flatwounds do not sound good on any jazz guitar. Some of the same model sound great with them others not. Using Roundwounds leads to a more acoustic tone. Also experiment with the eq on your amp with the tone-knob full open. Turn back bass and treble and turn up the mids, etc.

Cheers,
Chris

Jazzophobe · #19 01-14-2010, 05:34 PM

You are an inspiration to me!! I've been playing guitar for 35 years and, honestly, I should be a lot better than I am. Having said that, within the last year or so, I have definitely improved my chops. How? I bought my dream guitar, a Heritage H 575 custom, and a Roland JC 77 amp. I spend a lot of time just jamming to old jazz albums and noticed that I've been getting better and better. My only issue is music theory...I am ear taught all the way, so I do have my limitations, but, unless you want to go on tour, pick up your guitar, pour a glass of wine, and play along to your favorite artist.

pierre richard · #20 01-14-2010, 06:51 PM

bottle of wine on an end table....a brick of cheese...

guitar in hand...

does not get much better than that...

time on the instrument..piere

guitar freek · #21 01-30-2010, 11:11 AM

Hi I have an Ibanez AF125. There is a frustrating buzz from it sometimes more than others. It was sent back to Ibanez and another guitar tech but problem still re-appears. In desperation I removed the strings and pickups & checked their springs & screws, replaced the bridge with an ebony one,tightened the machine head & pot nuts,removed the sctratchplate and tailplate,checked the frets & neck alignment, adjusted the trussrod in and out slightly. It was then reassembled twice. Still the problem exists.
However by shear chanced I bumped the guitar on my knee and I heard a distinct Knock coming from within the instrument.I then turned the guitar upside down & the same thing happened. Could this be the truss rod or is it something else. Any ideas ???????? I am stumped.

Drumbler · #22 01-30-2010, 11:25 AM

The knock is probably wiring inside the hollow-body. I doubt this is a problem.

Are we talking buzzing strings?

Buzzing is usually caused by uneven frets which can be remedied by a fret polish. Raising the action of the strings is a possible fast fix but not the best if indeed the frets are uneven. Try raising the action. The strings may be oscillating against the frets.

So far you are like the car mechanic who tries to remedy a problem by replacing random parts.

guitar freek · #23 01-30-2010, 11:40 AM

Hi thanks for the reply Raised the action,checked frets with steel ruler etc they are ok, Checked inside wiring with mirror, fingers torch and stiff wire to move cables. Even turned switches slightly. Still no difference. By the way it is a solid Knock (not wiring).

Hoopskidoodle · #24 01-30-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitar freek

Hi thanks for the reply Raised the action,checked frets with steel ruler etc they are ok, Checked inside wiring with mirror, fingers torch and stiff wire to move cables. Even turned switches slightly. Still no difference. By the way it is a solid Knock (not wiring).

Are you sure that a brace (or some other piece of wood) hasn't come unglued in the body of the guitar? I'd get a telescoping (swiveling) mirror inspection tool and check specifically for that. A loose piece of wood could certainly account for buzzing (as the soundboard vibrates against it) and when jarred might well knock.

I've rewired Artcore guitars before, and I can't think of anything else--aside from a hanging pot, which you would certainly notice--that would knock on the inside of the guitar.

rodite1027 · #25 01-30-2010, 05:02 PM

You want a jazz sound listen to jazz. This is a major poblem with guys wanting to play jazz who have no background in it. Start listening and playing. The jazz sound is in your hands not equipment. Amp, clean channel, that's it. Jazz sounds are about tone production which is all in your mind. Ever listen to Ed Bickert? Dude plays a tele, granted it had a humbucker but still the sound ain't tele. I think your problem might be you thought the guitar would just produce the sound. Wrong. The sound comes from you. Talk to any horn player and you hear the same thing. That jazz sound is about tone production. I sound the same on everything I play. I just checked out a Martin Eric Clapton acoustic. I sounded exactly the same on it as I do my ES 175. The tone core is the same. Work on getting a good tone core and work outward. Jazz ain't like blues. The work is all you.

abracadabra · #26 01-31-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitar freek

Hi I have an Ibanez AF125. There is a frustrating buzz from it sometimes more than others. It was sent back to Ibanez and another guitar tech but problem still re-appears. In desperation I removed the strings and pickups & checked their springs & screws, replaced the bridge with an ebony one,tightened the machine head & pot nuts,removed the sctratchplate and tailplate,checked the frets & neck alignment, adjusted the trussrod in and out slightly. It was then reassembled twice. Still the problem exists.
However by shear chanced I bumped the guitar on my knee and I heard a distinct Knock coming from within the instrument.I then turned the guitar upside down & the same thing happened. Could this be the truss rod or is it something else. Any ideas ???????? I am stumped.

Don't know about the knocking, but could the buzzing be from the nut underneath the pickguard? The one connecting the pickguard to the metal brace thing that anchors the pickguard to the side of the body. Mine buzzed a little till I fixed it.

It's a long shot but you didn't mention attempting to fix that so I thought I'd mention it.

Baltar Hornbeek · #27 01-31-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek

A bit of a poser for sure.

A bit of a cynic for sure.

cajunjacket · #28 02-01-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Setting the bass, treble, mid controls at "zero". What ever zero is for your amp. Note that on some amps, that's questionable. The Blackface Twin Reverb has scooped mids, so you'd have to dial it up to get to zero

I was wondering about that. I have an Ibanez Artcore series guitar and a small Raven amp. I set my guitar to the kneck pup and put the tone pretty low. My amp has the following knobs: gain, volume, bass, mid, treble, and effect. If the bass, mid, and treble are all down to zero, I get no noise, so I turned up all 3 knobs just a bit and it sounds almost two bassy. The lower notes seemed to be amplified much more than the higher pitched notes. Is that normal, a problem with my pup, or a problem with the way I am setting the amp?

Thanks ... I am really new to guitar, so ...

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #29 02-01-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajunjacket

I was wondering about that. I have an Ibanez Artcore series guitar and a small Raven amp. I set my guitar to the kneck pup and put the tone pretty low. My amp has the following knobs: gain, volume, bass, mid, treble, and effect. If the bass, mid, and treble are all down to zero, I get no noise, so I turned up all 3 knobs just a bit and it sounds almost two bassy. The lower notes seemed to be amplified much more than the higher pitched notes. Is that normal, a problem with my pup, or a problem with the way I am setting the amp?

Thanks ... I am really new to guitar, so ...

I'm not familiar with that guitar or amp, but I can say with impunity that that's the way it always is. Guitar amps are all over the place when it comes to how they EQ, and every pickup has its own sound as well.

This means that when you're buying a guitar it's important to play with your amp(s), rather than just using whatever amp they hand you in the store, and vice versa when buying an amp.

Once you have your guitar/amp combination, then you have to play with the amps EQ as well as the guitar's pots. And don't forget that you can change the guitar's sound by raising and lowering the pickup itself.

Hoopskidoodle · #30 02-24-2010, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek

... Flats on that guitar, using the neck pup with the tone rolled off should get you right in the middle of the traditional jazz guitar sound. Amp should be clean.

That worked for me, after upgrading the pups.

Another thing that I've recently discovered that has made my hollow body and semi-hollow body guitars sound jazzier, at least to my ears, is swapping out the 500kΩ pots for 250s and the .022µf caps for .033s. I'm unconvinced whether the paper in oil construction of the new caps makes a bit of difference, but the higher capacitance rating absolutely does.