The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I'm just getting into jazz playing and I've noticed that sometimes a jazz arrangement will not sound anything like the song I know. Or sometimes the soloing or lines they play seem to stretch outside of the bars and it ends up feeling more like they're quoting a part of the song and then blistering a bunch of notes on it. I mean no disrespect but it can be hard for me to follow a song when things get so elastic.

    Example: Stella By Starlight

    Ella does a straight ahead version:



    But then the mighty Joe Pass comes along and does this:




    I love Joe Pass but these two versions sound very little alike. Is this a particular style of jazz or just something I'll appreciate more as I learn?

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzim
    I'm just getting into jazz playing and I've noticed that sometimes a jazz arrangement will not sound anything like the song I know. Or sometimes the soloing or lines they play seem to stretch outside of the bars and it ends up feeling more like they're quoting a part of the song and then blistering a bunch of notes on it. I mean no disrespect but it can be hard for me to follow a song when things get so elastic.

    Example: Stella By Starlight

    Ella does a straight ahead version:



    But then the mighty Joe Pass comes along and does this:




    I love Joe Pass but these two versions sound very little alike. Is this a particular style of jazz or just something I'll appreciate more as I learn?
    Can you appreciate any differences (not in the melody, but in the accompaniment - especially the piano) between the first and second chorus of the Ella recording?

  4. #3
    I did one better. I managed to line them up and play them simultaneously.

    And suddenly it made sense musically.

    Thanks for taking the time to point that out. I guess I wasn't hearing the connection between her take on the melody and his. This whole jazz thing is a little overwhelming. I just wanted to learn how to play nice solo chord melody arrangements for my own fun.

    This is like peeking over the edge of an abyss. Back to the woodshed. Thanks again.

  5. #4

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    The whole process of improvisation is different for everyone, Tehzim. But one thing it does have in common is each player brings what they are and what they know to what they play. It may not be clear to you what they're doing, but that's part of the process too, the listener's ability to appreciate the language is a very important part of what makes the dialogue of jazz what it is.

    For instance, a soloist may see the harmonic structure, the landscape of a piece if we might, as a landscaper might see a topographical map. What they plant might be completely different from the original flora and fauna. For someone who grew up in a densely wooded area of fruit trees, a sparse airy and minimal panorama of low shrubs, stands of pines and rich shadows would come as a shock. But if you see the landscaper's vision, it can bring out a beauty you never knew was there.

    So the composer's art uses harmonic structure as a building block. As the original song has melody made up of space, ascending and descending phrases, important areas of dramatic architecture where the line or lyric leads you, so does the soloists. In a good solo, you're led there by notes that are embellished, somewhat like a tree surrounded by smaller plants to shade, accent or lead you to a path that's unexpected. But if you can't hear those notes directing you, those embellishments are just poor indulgences you wish you could relate to.
    I said that a soloist brings everything they are to the solo space. That means a seasoned player may bring a sense of space, a choice of seasoned vocabulary tastefully used, or it may mean a young player plays the product of studying licks and struggling with a newfound fascination with really impressive but ultimately meaningless scale passages to get to the finish line. You as a listener are given the burden of getting close to the player's intent and the joy of appreciating their breakthroughs.

    A big turning point for me was realizing the difference between music as a product (that was an amazing solo on that record. I've got to have that in my hands) and a process (that was a remarkable journey you played, first the searching, then the theme and then the way you scrambled it up and came home with a new vision).

    But for everyone it's different. It's way beyond adage and cliche. You don't HAVE to see the forest from the trees, you just feel the land and see something that nobody else sees, and like it or not. That's jazz. Or the way I see it.
    Hope you find satisfaction in the process, Tehzim.

    David


  6. #5
    Yeah, I'm just starting really digging into jazz. That's a good explanation. It's probably why I prefer to watch performance videos too just music. You can see the body language and thought process. I'm a visual learner.

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  7. #6

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    See live music whenever and as much as you can. You may come to see that the music in recordings is merely a fractional part of the lives of people doing something never done before.
    In a live performance (even moreso than a video), you share the time and you share the sound.
    I think it's a necessary part of knowing jazz. But that's just me.

    David

  8. #7
    Where I live live jazz is not as easy to come by. So it's either an hour drive or YouTube

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  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzim
    Where I live live jazz is not as easy to come by. So it's either an hour drive or YouTube

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    The following YouTube channel is pure gold. I think it contains everything I could ever need. Read the annotations/descriptions carefully:
    Joe Louis
    - YouTube


    Transcribe (no need to write, just do it by ear) and imitate along the lines of the principles and actions recommended here:

  10. #9

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    Ah. Might I suggest you check out some of the streaming services in some clubs?

    Smalls Jazz Club - SmallsLIVE

    for example. That, with all the tragedy of seeing something immediate and exciting and realizing it was there and is gone... it's one way to join the jazz club world of Greenwich village NYC and be home for dinner!

    There are more out there. I'll post some if I get around to it.

    And welcome to the jazz world!
    David

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzim
    Is this a particular style of jazz or just something I'll appreciate more as I learn?
    Basically, yes.

    The point of jazz music isn't actually (believe it or not) to play as many weird notes as possible but to embellish the tune by enriching the harmonies. That can either be done skilfully, hopefully, or not. And it takes a long time to learn.

    The other point is that jazz improvisation provides freedom for the improviser to play what he likes over the harmony. I say 'as he likes' but it doesn't really mean playing all kinds of nonsense. Leaving the actual tune is completely permitted but it's generally returned to later. The idea is to take off and let the music take you where it will.

    That said, any improvisation ought to be done within the spirit of the song or tune, not something unrelated or that 'just fits over the chords'. That's where skill and taste come in. It gives the player a chance, if we're honest, to show what he can do which also, hopefully, will interest and entertain the audience.

    Possibly the exception to this is so-called 'free jazz' which can go a bit mad and raucous and isn't everyone's cup of tea.

    So when you hear Joe Pass do all that stuff with 'Stella' he's playing round the harmonies and embellishing them according to his own feeling and interpretation - but it's still 'Stella' even though he's not always playing the actual melody.

    And, incidentally, it's also permitted to change the harmonies - not unrecognisably, but to provide a different take on the piece. It's all about interpretation and improvisation in both the musical and literal senses.

    That's the whole beauty of it, really, and the more one listens, studies and knows about it the more fascinating it is.

  12. #11

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  13. #12

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  14. #13

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    Last one:

  15. #14

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    Why do some jazz musicians seem to leave the melody behind

    Imo, it's partly due to taste and partly due to self-control - and/or the lack thereof.

  16. #15

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    This clip with Chick Corea and Lee Konitz begins with Chick reading Stella as a solo piano solo that takes a rhythmic motiv, a chordal movement and lets it grow over the form of Stella; each progressive phrase adding to the one before. You can hear the DNA of stella in there but much more in the forefront (to my ear) is the clever and artful assertion of his own intention on the piece.
    That awareness of the form and its implied space allows a dialogue between him and Lee. If you hear the unfolding of the solo, there'll be dialogue, like two people discussing an interesting subject over dinner; offering ideas and commenting on the topic of "What I hear in Stella by Starlight."


    This is the famous Take the A train by Duke, and it's played by Free jazz player Matthew Shipp. Take a listen to the choices each player makes on what they are inspired from in the original head. It might be just rhythm, it might be melody, it might follow a harmonic transitional point, or it might be something they FEEL to be what they love about the piece. Then they use that as the jumping point to make a new composition with the cooperative effort of the band members. This is the free jazz end of the spectrum, but you can see how far you can go when a piece plays the role of another player.



    Big world of improvisational music. You don't have to like what you hear, but the process of engagement can be a satisfying one.

    David

  17. #16

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    That's what Jazz is all about reinterpreting songs, spontaneous improvisation on a song, taking a song to new place, and if good never doing it the same way twice. That's why Jazz musicians say you have to hear Jazz live to truly appreciate it, a recording it just one performance at one point in time not the spontaneous creation they would do in front of you.

    Even classical music is not performed the same by each conductor, different nights tempos will change, other subtle change. Early classical music there was a lot of improvisation, Bach was a badass improvisor in organ, but sadly there was no recording devices other than pen and paper.

    Funny at the diner this morning I was reading a book on improvisation in living life and how important it is to stay fresh and creative.

    Jazz is all about improv and so is life when lived properly.

    "more coffee darling, I've got 'shedding to do"

  18. #17

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    I have found after roughly a 45-year involvement with jazz---preceded by some years delving into blues, etc.---that the 2 hardest things to do are: keeping good time and playing a melody with good sound and feeling to bring it out. Certain hot-shot players people look up to IMO fail at both. If you don't master the basics, shame on you.

    The end...

  19. #18

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    Why do some jazz musicians seem to leave the melody behind

    It started with bop which is about 'the singer' not 'the song'.

  20. #19
    Some great replies! Definitely going to watch all those videos when I get the chance.

    It's also been great to hear everyone's ideas on the nature of jazz and improvisation.

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  21. #20

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    Number 1 rule of jazz: there are no rules.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Number 1 rule of jazz: there are no rules.
    I'm gonna quote you the next time a singer complains about my love of atonal/polytonal comping.

    David

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I'm gonna quote you the next time a singer complains about my love of atonal/polytonal comping.

    David
    Ah, theory hitting up against reality. When playing music with others there are certain 'rules'; I.e. guidelines and expectations that each of us expect from the other person. E.g. I'm playing with a classical pianist that has only played jazz for a few years (and is still clearly in the learning stage). We agree on the overall format; You take the head, I'll solo first, than you solo, than I'll end playing only the A part of the head, END: Well we start and during my solo he is playing really busy; I stop; "Uh, did you forget I'm soloing first?",,,, "No". I reminded him that when backing a soloist the goal is to improve the sound of the soloist and not to step all over him'. I got back 'I though there were no rules'.
    Last edited by jameslovestal; 09-03-2017 at 03:54 PM.

  24. #23

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    Part of the original spirit of jazz was taking popular tunes that the audience had heard so many times they had practically memorized them and make something fresh out of them, sometimes radically so. The audience's familiarity with "straight" versions of catchy tunes were an essential part of the formula. One of the reasons audiences often get turned off by jazz these days is that either they aren't familiar with the original tunes or that original compositions are being played that aren't very catchy.
    Last edited by KirkP; 09-03-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    Part of the original spirit of jazz was taking popular tunes that the audience had heard so many times they had practically memorized them and make something fresh out of them, sometimes radically so. The audience's familiarity with "straight" versions of catchy tunes were an essential part of the formula. One of the reasons audiences often get turned off by jazz theses days is that either they aren't familiar with the original tunes or that original compositions are being played that aren't very catchy.
    ^^^ That

    My friend once described jazz as the "bored musician" music. What he meant was that in the days before ubiquitous recorded music musicians were the radio or juke-box of their day. They were expected to play the day's greatest "hit" over and over again. Jazz was born out of what happens when you force that kind of misery on a musician.

    A quick check of Bilboard says that "Science Fiction" by Brand New is #1. I've never heard the tune or the band, but imagine if you now were expected to play that tune two or three times a day six days a week. That is what it was like for bands of the first half of the last century. You had two challenges:

    1) Play "Science Fiction" in such a way that people came to hear you rather than the band at the next nightclub down the block; and,

    2) Play "Science Fiction" in a way that didn't make you want to shoot yourself from boredom.

    Improvising over "Science Fiction" on the spot became the heart and soul of jazz. You made it interesting to you. You made it fresh for the audience. You "wowed" the audience with your virtuosity. You gave them a reason to keep coming back to the nightclub you were playing at.

    Few jazz musicians do that anymore. I suppose part of the reason is that faithful recordings of the original can be heard absolutely everywhere. We don't need musicians playing "Science Fiction" when Pandora can do it instantly. Whatever the reason, it seems we're are now required to become bored with 20 or so "standards", some a century old, that the audience doesn't know and rarely relates to.

  26. #25

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    Most 'general' audiences are going to be unfamiliar with the jazz standards of the 30s - 50s. Therefore when playing for such an audience (e.g. at a party), I'll pick songs that are more likely to be known; Over the Rainbow, Sweet Georgia Brown and Georgia On my Mind etc... If there has been a recent T.V commercial that features a standard I'll throw that in as well. (e.g. Liquid Plummer is featuring Too Marvelous for Words, for some reasons that I fail to understand).

    In addition I ask the person playing the head to stay really close to the melody so that people recognize the song before the improvisation (hey, at least we don't lose them right from the start!).