The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hey guys! I'm a jazz drummer and composer and I've recently jumped into actually practicing jazz guitar and the art of guitar, after playing by ear for years.

    I've met with a private teacher who gave me a routine which I should do daily (30-60 minutes) with the aim of "unlocking" the fretboard. I feel like I understand this routine and its goal but it seems really tedious and a lot of work, without having a clear view of the possibilities this kind of routine would possible open up for me in playing guitar.

    The routine is following: play from the 4-fret position (plus finger shifts) the diatonic major scale notes ascending and descending, starting from a specific key (usually C) and advancing the circle of fifths backwards to cover all the keys. He also recommended me to do this to all the major diatonic modes and the basic scales. Also switching the interval patterns (playing 3rds, 4ths, 7s) was recommended.

    This seems like a good tool to know your scale shapes and how they sound, but as scales shouldn't be mixed with music or composing, this feels very tedious. Also having to do this with all the major diatonic modes seems slightly pointless to me, as they differ only but having certain intervals flat or sharp.

    I would like to know what you guys think of this and to help me to understand what I would possibly gain in the long run with this sort of routine? Also to involve my intellect in the practice and to train my ear, I sing the notes as I play them. Would it be more beneficial to sing the notes or rather the intervals like (onee, twoo, three etc.)

    Thanks a lo!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    That's pretty standard advice for a developing player**. To stair step things a bit you could always:

    Start with just Ionian. Then add one mode, then another, then another....
    Play in keys C, F, Bb, Eb, A, D, G. (then add the full circle as you get more comfortable)

    **
    (I wonder how tedious most guitarists would find jazz drumming drills. Just sayin. )
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 07-26-2017 at 09:55 PM.

  4. #3

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    Depending on the style of jazz you want to play, arpeggios might be even more important. There's a lot of work to be done, just don't try to do it all at once. Learn melodies, heads, and (I shouldn't have to suggest this to a drummer) vary the rhythms, make your practice time more playful. Use backing tracks. And don't neglect your ii/V/Is.

  5. #4

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    I don't know how advanced you are in guitar. That exercise seems great if you already have a lot of basics down and are looking for some way of improving technical proficiency and fluidity on the neck. If, on the other hand, the guitar is still relatively new to you I would suggest the first thing to begin playing is some melodies of jazz standards.

    Can you play a simple melody to a backing track and get through without a flub? Do you understand how the melody lies on the fingerboard (ie do you understand the key, what scale degrees and intervals the melody is using, etc.)? Can you play the melody and vary the rhythm or phrasing a little? Can you pick up some of the melody by ear without looking at the score?

    If so, then working through a bunch of scales and fingerings so that you can do them with pure muscle memory is a great way to increase your technical proficiency and knowledge of the fretboard. Otherwise, that is where I would start.

  6. #5

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    Hi joonasamuel, welcome to the long journey. First question, do you like the music your teacher plays?
    I didn't ask if you like him, or if people say he's good, or how long he's been doing it, but do you like his music.
    That's good advice and a really valid exercise. There's value in it. But there's also a trap. Time will tell what he's got in mind but the trap is that muscle memory and being impressed with playing with speed, confidence and proficiency will lead to that guitarists' affliction: playing without hearing or thinking. So before I come between good advice and a need to learn it, ask yourself if your teacher has something in the sound that you really want in your hands; in your thought process.

    As far as good advice, I've always thought that knowing the fingerboard all over is really good advice, but I would strongly suggest that right from the start, you learn to play melodically, or introduce different intervals, and different rhythms to the areas you're covering with scales. In other words, once you have the scale down, and as soon as you can, apply them to a melodic pattern. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 2 3 4 5 3 ... or 1 3 2 4 3 5... or 1 4 2 5 3 6... or 1 3 4 2 3 5 6 4... you get the idea. Then apply these to a combination of longer and shorter value notes, so you can learn to play and hear with space and rhythm. Keep it fresh this way so your ear and hands learn the creative possibilities as well as the notes. But this is what I would do or teach if someone wanted my approach. Maybe your teacher is a scale monster and that's what you want, but you decide what's right for you after you give it a go. By the way, I've always found a little collection of patterns that Oliver Nelson published, Patterns for Improvisation, to be really good for me.
    Here's the PDF auf Deutsch
    Improvisation for saxophone - Oliver Nelson.pdf - Google Drive
    if you're curious.

    Really, decide what you want to do, as specifically as you can know, and ask your teacher to justify his teaching to you if you have any reservations. That's the best way to maintain the trust and credibility of that relationship.
    Good luck and have fun!
    David

  7. #6

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    I think that you need to mix technical practice with practical practice. The scale routine sounds good but I would cut it in half and learn 2 songs a week.
    Learn songs that will allow you to apply those scales. For example, work on the C scale and learn a song in C like "Fly me to the moon". Combine the G scale with "Autumn Leaves". Combine the F scale with "The days of wine and roses" etc.


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  8. #7

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    Well it's a little hard to judge a teacher's advice without having tried that routine myself. Just an opinion: I go by the rule, "never practice bored".

    So the way I practice scales is just one scale, one shape in a day. The thing is to find many patterns within that, as mentioned above, and make it musical.

  9. #8

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    I do mechanical routines 5-10min max now. Then try to make something cool out of it. Can take quite a bit of time, wouldn't always cover the whole run but what it does cover, it's night and day difference. Mechanical vs. musical practice - not even comparable.
    Last edited by emanresu; 07-28-2017 at 08:01 AM.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Hi joonasamuel, welcome to the long journey. First question, do you like the music your teacher plays?
    This is a pretty good question. The cycling exercise is more of an APPLICATION exercise - for after you know the basic patterns.

    joonasamuel, do you know the basic patterns already? If not, I'd wonder that this assignment is skipping a few steps.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    This is a pretty good question. The cycling exercise is more of an APPLICATION exercise - for after you know the basic patterns.

    joonasamuel, do you know the basic patterns already? If not, I'd wonder that this assignment is skipping a few steps.
    Hey Matt! I do know the basic scales already (and slightly more unusual ones, such as modes for melodic minor, harmonic minor & major) but only visually by one or two finger patterns. I do not distinguish them by ear that well, nor know what notes are in the pattern in a specific key (a deadly trap I've fallen into the guitar being so simply transposed) even though I know the interval patterns.

    He told me this exercise would in the end eliminate me from thinking in preset pattern boxes and be able to construct them on the neck however I like. However, that goal seems at the moment that it's going to take years.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Joonasamuel
    Hey Matt! I do know the basic scales already (and slightly more unusual ones, such as modes for melodic minor, harmonic minor & major) but only visually by one or two finger patterns. I do not distinguish them by ear that well, nor know what notes are in the pattern in a specific key (a deadly trap I've fallen into the guitar being so simply transposed) even though I know the interval patterns.

    He told me this exercise would in the end eliminate me from thinking in preset pattern boxes and be able to construct them on the neck however I like. However, that goal seems at the moment that it's going to take years.
    Yeah. There are a lot of approaches to this stuff, and many work, though in different ways. I think the best approaches take into consideration the human intangibles beyond mere efficiency: motivation, physical/mental stamina etc.

    It's hard to judge what someone else is doing without knowing, but that's why I think David's questions are so important. What about the music? The rest you can pick up on the inter-webs. Right?

    For me, personally, there is always a balance between pure efficiency and tedium which saps motivation and inspiration. "If I were to die in the middle of the process, am I enjoying what I'm doing? And how much?" How long do you have to work a process to play anything meaningful? Is ix months reasonable? A year, two years?

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to play something MUSICAL and gratifying in the first lesson, even if it's an ambitious pursuit like jazz. Maybe that's happening, and if so, great. Otherwise, think about David's questions and remain open to the idea of taking teachers for a "test drive" or audition.

  13. #12

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    Playing a single fingering all over as you stated is a guitar trick and although it can put you in the correct key
    (a useful tool) it doesn't teach note content. Playing all keys within a single position however requires many
    different fingering shapes.

    If you are playing within 5 frets playing scales full range of the position, from lowest to highest note then the
    only fingerings that repeat are the ones that take only 4 frets, which occur twice. It forces you to at least be
    aware of the intervals if not the pitch names. You should memorized the major key signatures and the spellings
    of any other scales you are playing off the guitar. Likewise with the spellings of chords. This will help when puzzling
    out the notes contained in a given fingering.

    I think of learning "materials of music" in this way.

    1. Simple statement up and down with good sound and time feel. Use different subdivisions or rhythmic figures.

    From here it depends on what your goals are.

    a classical player is probably going to focus on some basic patterns and articulations

    2. Mechanical patterns (intervals and arpeggio scales) and patterns derived from music.
    3. Improvise melodies using the notes from the fingering
    4. Improvise harmonies possible using the notes from the fingerings.
    5. Combine melody and harmony freely

    Playing musically with "materials of music" is closer to playing music.
    Use your imagination freely to help this be so.

    I don't know how much time you have to practice guitar daily but your musical life should be bigger than just scales.
    That you are a skilled drummer already should greatly accelerate your learning process.
    Good luck in your progress.

  14. #13

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    I have an approach using multi sided dice that I want to do a video on.

  15. #14

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    There are between 34 and 268 proper practice routines to consider. Find one you like, and when you get bored, switch to another. That's what self taught guitarists are compelled to do. As you can observe, everyone is an expert when it comes to guitar, stay here, and soon you will be one too.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I have an approach using multi sided dice that I want to do a video on.

    You realize what a serious nerd that makes you, right! I can see it now: "The Dungeons and Dragons approach to Jazz!"

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    You realize what a serious nerd that makes you, right! I can see it now: "The Dungeons and Dragons approach to Jazz!"
    Well yeah, but I reckon D&D is on the verge of getting a bit hipster...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joonasamuel

    I would like to know what you guys think of this and to help me to understand what I would possibly gain in the long run with this sort of routine? Also to involve my intellect in the practice and to train my ear, I sing the notes as I play them. Would it be more beneficial to sing the notes or rather the intervals like (onee, twoo, three etc.)
    Sing first, play what you've just sung is an ancient and effective exercise. One-two-three works, do-re-mi too

    To give an idea how computers can help:
    example.mp3 - Google Drive
    Just woke up and am a bit rusty hence the mistakes and clunkyness. This type of exercise can be a stepping stone for freedom and confidence. I got it working seamlessly a few years ago and now trying to get it back the same shape. Cuz its magic.
    So, find apps that throw chords at your face, try to deal with them on the fly, see what happens. Also, then you see that practicing those zillion fingerings is actually a good idea.

    My page in my signature has 2 of those but may be tricky to get used to. But this could get you started:
    Online Ear Training | Jazz Trumpet Blog | IWasDoingAllRight

  19. #18

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    Yes, sing - play is good and something I need to work into my routine more, and will thanks for being reminded!

    Try strumming a chord and then humming a few notes, and you should find you are naturally singing chord tones so it tends to sound quite musical. Then try and play it. A good way to come up with melodies.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joonasamuel
    Hey guys! I'm a jazz drummer and composer and I've recently jumped into actually practicing jazz guitar and the art of guitar, after playing by ear for years.

    The routine is following: play from the 4-fret position (plus finger shifts) the diatonic major scale notes ascending and descending, starting from a specific key (usually C) and advancing the circle of fifths backwards to cover all the keys. He also recommended me to do this to all the major diatonic modes and the basic scales. Also switching the interval patterns (playing 3rds, 4ths, 7s) was recommended.

    Thanks a lo!
    It's an approach -- and I still often drill myself on it, playing every key, everywhere on the neck.

    Now, even though I actually continue to do it, I'm going to argue against it.

    The problem is that you're practicing the notes in order. Eventually, you'll run different intervals, but even those will be in order. There are very good players who think and play this way. But, you'll end up playing what you practice, and it risks a certain mindless fingers-in-the-ruts quality.

    My suggestion is to practice the scales in a different way.

    Get Irealpro ($10) to get backing tracks.

    Then pick a tune, say, Autumn Leaves, to start. Decide which scales you're going to solo over it with. Pick an area of the neck, say around the 3rd fret. Now, using the notes from the scales you selected, try to play a nice melodic solo all around the 3rd. Then move up the neck a couple of frets at a time (or to the next position you know a pattern for) and do it again. You should have 4 or 5 areas of the neck to practice.

    Then, bump the key by a fourth and do the whole thing again. As you advance, start sticking in the arpeggios if you like. When it gets boring, try to add b9's against the 7th chords. Then #9s. Then altered 5ths.

    My preference is to find the notes not by pattern, but by name, in every key without hesitation. Takes a lot of drill, but so does every other approach.

    The main point of doing it this way is that you're always using the scales as unordered pools of notes to select from as you make melody.

    This makes sense to me, but afaik, hardly anybody does it this way, at least not on guitar.

    I mentioned that I do continue to run scales, but I use them mostly as a picking exercise. When I want to work on improvisation, I do it the way I just explained.

    And, as always, there are great players who didn't do it my way.

  21. #20

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    oh god don't do that routine... it's not very good

  22. #21

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    Well don't leave us hanging here. Why isn't it very good?

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    You realize what a serious nerd that makes you, right! I can see it now: "The Dungeons and Dragons approach to Jazz!"
    Well you asked for it:


  24. #23

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    30-60 minutes of that kind of stuff would be great for you, but as a former teacher I think he gave you too many things at once. I mean I think you would be spreading your 30-60 minutes too thin by practicing 10 scales in 5 positions each or whatever when you could be ingraining, say, 2 major scale shapes, two dominant scale shapes, two melodic minor scale shapes. That's enough to get you through any standard. It's the same way usually we teach the different chord types in root position with the root on the 5th and the root on the 6th strings then get the student playing through tunes. We don't say "learn drop 2, 3, and 2&4 for all qualities, inversions, and all string sets." before learning music
    Last edited by joe2758; 08-04-2017 at 04:39 PM.

  25. #24

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    Stop! Before you dive into years of scale practice, you absolutely must be sure about what they will achieve. If you want to sound remotely "Jazzy", then please understand that scales will not do that. Not without several more years of learning to modify those scales.

    I'm quite certain that practicing patterns and sequences that embellish chord tones for all kinds of chords in every position is much more useful than practicing scales. You still get to learn the fingerboard and how to link all the material for any key / chord in any / all position(s).

    The difference is you are practicing language instead of scales. Having said that, if you want to sound like a modal or fusion, or jazz rock player, then maybe scales can help you get there. But you won't sound like Bop inspired Jazz, which for many players is the lingua franca for the true jazz player. It's closer to how the original jazz vocabulary came into being, and compared with scales, is a very different approach when considering getting from one note, or idea, to the next. It's about diatonic and chromatic embellishments (passing notes, enclosures etc). You learn arpeggios first, then many ways to embellish them so most of your downbeats are chord tones. If you don't understand what I'm saying, just listen to Clifford Brown or Sonny Stitt or some "text book" Bop players and slow it right down one note at a time until you start to see the logic and patterns behind the note choices. You will never hear: c d e f g a b c etc. Instead you will see there are dozens if not hundreds of ways, even to just go from c to d !

    Practicing scales is like reciting a looped alphabet starting from any letter in any direction. What use is that if all you wish to do is write poetry? Being able to recite speedy permutations of the alphabet will not make you a poet. Better to study language, motifs, devices, ways of getting from one "word" to another. That plus your rhythmic skills will get you there, eventually. IMVHO....

  26. #25

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    Yeah, well kind of. I think you HAVE TO inundate yourself in scales and scale indoctrination. You can and SHOULD step away and do patterns, but you HAVE to know your fretboard as a piece. The best way of understanding all the nooks and crannies of the fretboard is scale study. But they won't give you the musical language. They're the canvas you paint the language on. In my opinion, you have to know it down cold.


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