-
In this video lesson I demonstrate how to solo over "I Got Rhythm" using only minor and major pentatonics. This is ideal for rock and blues guitarists making the transition to jazz and desiring a standard to groove on with their existing knowledge! This should provide some "instant gratification" during the long journey required before you can play over the individual changes...Your questions are welcome and your feedback is appreciated! - Richie
-
06-07-2017 06:02 PM
-
Watched it yesterday and think it's a great introduction to learn to play over RC tunes. Thanks!
-
Nah...
-
I'm gonna say Yeah. Richie's presented a reasonable way for rock and rolleros to solo on an important jazz tune without getting bogged down on what's the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale or submitting Form 24B to the Jazz Police.
-
There's better ways to incorporate Pentatonics for the Rock/Blues crossover player. Firstly the Rock style bending has to go, not saying you can't incorporate bends into Jazz playing, just not in that way. Blues players need to be weaned off their habits....
Instead of the usual pentatonics, it's way more useful to introduce some alterations to them, like the Dominant Pent, the Half Dim and Full Dim Pents. Then at least you have the main food groups and can train the ear into hearing the changes better with those important tones. It can be a great way to serve as a stepping stone from Blues/Rock to Jazz, especially as the picking hand still feels familiar, that ol' 2 notes per string and all its patterns etc (although here again there are habits to avoid...).
So I like Richie's concept here, but just think that for the Jazz novice to invest any serious time, they might as well add a little more substance to their Jazz diet....
-
Good points. Makes a lot of sense.
Originally Posted by princeplanet
-
Well, it says: Pt1. I guess Richie will introduce some more sophisticated stuff in Pt.2.... Originally Posted by princeplanet
-
I actually think making something like this actually sound good is an advanced topic, not beginner stuff.
I think beginners should concentrate on making the changes. Play slowly. Play RC as a ballad.
Then you can look at the blues scale+ V chord ideas and such.
-
He's not actually playing jazz, though, is he?
I think if you want to learn jazz you should start off playing jazz, however simplistically, not rock stuff. And pentatonics alone is rock stuff, or just bordering on swing.
-
Are there any actual tunes using RC that are fairly slow so one can learn and practice an actual tune instead of just playing over the changes? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
To anyone who is interested:
We started a study group based on Frank Vignola's book(s) of solos based on Rhythm Changes. We started a few months ago so it is not too late to jump in. The solos start off very easy and they get progressively harder. Good melodies, with tabs and the occasional analysis by your truly.
Join us !!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I would guess just slow down anything and add fills as one can. How about a slow and melancholy Flintstone's Theme? Originally Posted by TOMMO
-
I just had a chance to read through the comments for this lesson. Normally I'm notified if someone posts a comment and I reply soon, but for some reason this time I wasn't. Sorry! Either way, I think most of you missed the point of this lesson. Like I said at the beginning, this is for rock or blues players who want to have some "almost" instant "gratification" over some jazz progression with their existing knowledge. This isn't playing jazz and I never claimed it was. On the other hand, I believe that the player who is truly serious about playing jazz should not get hung up on pentatonics and needs to learn his/her scales and arpeggios.
As a teacher I've had new students who play in wedding bands with horn players, and claim that they sometimes have to play a jazz tune or two during their gigs. They ask me if there is any easy way to get around those changes while they learn their scales to properly play jazz. Using pentatonics has been a temporary work around for many...even though I agree, it may not be jazz...at least not for the "purist". But then again, personally I can't stand purists (as in "it's not jazz if you bend a string") Especially in the 21st century! 99 percent of us guitarists come from a rock or blues background. That said, I disagree that you have to forget to play the blues in order to learn to play jazz. I sure didn't. And when the mood is right, I love to bend strings on any standard. But don't take it from me...Talk to Sco, Mike Stern or so many of today's great jazz players and they'll agree!Last edited by jazzcapade; 06-14-2017 at 11:42 PM.
-
Compare the chords in a rhythm tune a section to those in a jazz blues in the same key and see what similarities you notice.
RC, like blues can be boiled down to three chords. As a result your soloing options are similar.
-
@jazzcapade
Yeah I agree, a few thoughts
1) I see a lot of jazz teaching as giving workarounds or patches while the large inevitable chunks of new material are slowly assimilated by the student. They should be out there playing, so they need things they can use right away while also working on fretboard knowledge, technique etc
2) bebop language - parkers - has become a gold standard for improvisation on rhythm changes, but truth is it's only one of a multitude of options. People played RC before Parker showed up and many of them played blues licks.
3) the swing era blues scale is
1 2 b3 3 5 6 (b7) - so major blues. Or relative minor blues. (Something I notice in Charlie christian and lester young. Bruce foreman talks about this scale.)
4) the thing that makes rock blues players stand out most to me is not note choice but rhythm, tone, articulation, phrasing.
After all a jazz guitarist can play the blues scale and sound like jazz... A rocker playing altered scales will sound like a rocker.
working on familiar material can offer an opportunity to look into everything else.
-
Yeah, I played pretty much straight through. My playing got more jazz over time.
-
@jazzcapade
I’ve been wondering when Vol.2 of BGIS will finally come out and here you are, spending your time teasing everyone. Just kidding! Good vid!
-
Or just lose yourself in this book:
Pentatonic Scales for Jazz Improvisation (The Ramon Ricker Jazz Improvisation): Ramon Ricker: 9780769230726: Amazon.com: Books
-
If I was playing Rhythm Changes with pentatonics/blues scale, I would do this (I mean I do do this):
Rhythm Tunes boil down to:
Bb | F7 | Bb | F7 |
Bb7 | Eb7 | Bb | F7 |
Bb - Bb major blues
F7 - Bb major or minor blues
Eb7 - Bb minor blues
So basically - make sure you play minor in bar 5!
I would advise a student to check out this solo by Lester Young, for instance, who combines pentatonics/blues with arpeggios and the odd neat spot of chromaticism:
Lester obviously lays the groundwork for Bird's rhythm changes explorations.
Sonny Rollins Oleo head is mostly G minor blues.
Of course you can also play minor blues on Bb whenever you like. On the bridge we use:
D major pent --> D7
G major pent --> G7
C major pent --> C7
F major pent --> F7
Actually if you take a squint at the B section of, say, Anthroplogy, you'll notice a lot of Parker's lines are built on that basic pentatonic skeleton.
As far as using pents to express interesting chord on chord harmony, the possibilities outlined above in ragman's post give you the information, and I would put this in the category of modern shit.
Application in practice always takes longer of course. In this case the physical aspect is well known, so the work is all based on context and sound. Context work is (it seems) what a lot of more advanced players seem to spend their time doing....
Anyway the way I like to teach is historical, because the later options build on the early stuff. You can't go wrong starting with Prez and Charlie Christian.
Beyond this basic step - a student should work on triads, chords and so on as well as basic sub and take a good detailed look at a number of Rhythm Changes heads.Last edited by christianm77; 06-19-2017 at 10:54 AM.
-
Thanks for the likes, TOMMO. The trouble with pentatonics is you begin to notice the absence of lines... :-)
-
Well perhaps ole Prez will help with that. I like the deft combination of pentatonics with other techniques.
A Lesson from Lester
To me the thing that makes a line a line is how the rhythms pop - the pitches just act as a conduit for that. Lester Young playing a major pentatonic phrase is obviously not the same as a beginning jazz student. There's a lot that can be done with simple note choices.
The major pentatonic scale, BTW is what I think of as a pan-consonant scale. That means, every note is consonant, which might be part of the reason it doesn't sound like a line per se - a pentatonic line doesn't have a built in directionality to it, like a chord tone passing tone line does.
(I find I have similar problems with using seven note scales without avoid notes such as Lydians, Dorians and Melodic Minor modes on static chords.)
If we treat the Bb turnarounds in a Rhythm Tune as an extension of one chord - Bb - this means we have absolute rhythmic freedom to use this scale in the same way as a major triad. It can be a fun exercise to get a student to scat a rhythm, and then play those rhythms using the major pentatonic.
The student can then experiment with adding in decorating notes - b3s, b5s, b7s, b6s and so on - to create movement, but doing so based on rhythm.
Also - the minor 6 pentatonic scale - 1 b3 4 5 6 - Covers both altered and non-altered dominant possibilities.
-
Welcome! I've been quite obsessed with RC for the last two years expecting that everything else would be much easier to navigate as soon as I get them to work. Two years later I still can't properly improvise proper "lines" through the changes. I have learned and memorized about a dozen excellent choruses and they have helped me understand what a good sounding line is comprised of but I just can't pull it off out of the top of my head (yet). Originally Posted by ragman1
-
Sounds like a job for Barry Harris :-) that is if it's bop you are after. Originally Posted by TOMMO
I know I drone on about him endlessly, but he really has the most worked out way of getting from scales and arps to lines. It's grindy, but it works.
-
Don't know if it's bop or swing or a mix of both - the way I encountered them was with altered dom7 chords (b9 / #9) on degrees VI and V. The original diatonic changes would be a piece of cake compared to that.... Originally Posted by christianm77
Noticed a lot of mention of Barry Harris here on the board lately...
-
Yet, exactly. Originally Posted by TOMMO
Incidentally, I don't need to reiterate that I'm not recommending all that pentatonic stuff? I 'd never use pentatonics like that but, as I said, knowing the odd sub is fun and gives you an alternative.
Reply With Quote
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Today, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading