The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Ha. I wouldn't hold your breath. But seriously, why would we do that?
    It’s the Barry Harris method. There has been a long thread on this subject not long ago. I think it was in the chords and comping section.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    I figured

  4. #28

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    If you really listen a lot, you shouldn't need too many books. I haven't studied from a page of any book but a theory book - which doesn't include any lines or licks. I know you said transcription is hard, but man, that's the exact mentality that makes it hard. It took me weeks to transcribe my first Charlie Parker solos. Hell, I think it took me a few days to transcribe the first few bars of any solo I tried to transcribe at first...but then I improved because I was doing it.

    The only way to get an authentic "jazz sound" is to listen to what the greats are playing. Simply putting on an album and hearing it isn't going to help you. Stay away from books unless you're really stuck, because even if they're books of licks from the greatest players in the world, the books aren't playing the music for you, so you have no context about anything that was going on in the song in the first place.

    I'm sort of going off on a tangent here, but I remember distinctly the point at which I began to improve was when I noticed that, in all of the solos that I'd been listening to, the rhythm section and the soloist were listening to each other and responding accordingly. That right there makes it even more difficult for books to teach you jazz. Maybe a lick sounded great, but was it because the rhythm section played something that fit with the line?

    Sorry for the rambling, but in essence, steer away from books unless you have to, because even the best books are only giving you one slice of the pie, and if you want to become a better player, you have to make the pie yourself, you dig? Go out, buy some records and transcribe.

  5. #29

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    For those interested in the book here it is on Amazon. Note that there is no audio or guitar tab for those that are dependent upon it.

    Jazz Guitar Lines Of The Greats: Steve Briody: 9781562242732: Amazon.com: Books

  6. #30

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    Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts on this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtons
    If you really listen a lot, you shouldn't need too many books. I haven't studied from a page of any book but a theory book - which doesn't include any lines or licks. I know you said transcription is hard, but man, that's the exact mentality that makes it hard. It took me weeks to transcribe my first Charlie Parker solos. Hell, I think it took me a few days to transcribe the first few bars of any solo I tried to transcribe at first...but then I improved because I was doing it.
    I admit I do not listen enough. I can't even tell you who I listen too exclusively on guitar, but could on piano and horn.
    Too many times I get a nice solo by a player (any instrument) only to be followed by something I don't like and then wonder why I would follow the guy. I don't own two full albums by any one guitarist.
    Transcription is hard for me but not bad for all of us; I hope I made that clear.
    It's just that after transcribing from any source or looking at these offered in the book one is left with the same thing, admittedly, out of context you are correct, and I get it, but still the same material.

    Here I'm trying to squeeze the "theory" out of the lines presented; you did mention that you have turned to books for theory.

    At the end of this project I'm hoping to have some theory to apply not some phrases. I started pointing that out in the last post referring to the Mike Titlebaum vid on melodic embellishments.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtons
    only way to get an authentic "jazz sound" is to listen to what the greats are playing. Simply putting on an album and hearing it isn't going to help you. Stay away from books unless you're really stuck, because even if they're books of licks from the greatest players in the world, the books aren't playing the music for you, so you have no context about anything that was going on in the song in the first place.
    OK. ok, I'm really stuck.

    But here are two phrases (I dislike the term lick immensely) just from the three examples in the OP.
    This kind of thing can creep into your fingers.



    Jazz lines ideas-phrases-1-png

    I'm after internalizing things like this after I "see" them on the board.



    Quote Originally Posted by maxtons
    sort of going off on a tangent here, but I remember distinctly the point at which I began to improve was when I noticed that, in all of the solos that I'd been listening to, the rhythm section and the soloist were listening to each other and responding accordingly. That right there makes it even more difficult for books to teach you jazz. Maybe a lick sounded great, but was it because the rhythm section played something that fit with the line?
    Please, go off on a tangent anytime. I'd like to be proven off course if it will save some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxtons
    Sorry for the rambling, but in essence, steer away from books unless you have to, because even the best books are only giving you one slice of the pie, and if you want to become a better player, you have to make the pie yourself, you dig? Go out, buy some records and transcribe.
    There's no "sorry" in trying to help a fellow player.

    Thanks for your time and interest.

    I still find things on uTube that I run at .5 and then even tape with AnyTune and sweat it out on paper; I'm doing one right now in fact. Transcription isn't that far away. But I'm hoping to get something out of these examples and run them up against iRealPro to see what sticks.

    I should add too that the purpose here is to "see" these things INSIDE THE MODES.

    Thanks again and please continue to contribute to this thread.

  7. #31

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    FWIW, I disagree that everyone should put away their books. Learning anything from books is hard. Not everyone is wired that way. Teaching with books is also hard. Not everyone is wired to teach that way. You combine the two and it is no surprise that there are some people who have had no luck learning from books.

    Books have helped me immensely. @WILSON 1 and I have both been working through Alan Kingstone's book and it has changed the way I play and think about the fretboard. There is no amount of transcription that would have given me what that book did. What I'm beginning to get from Mike Longo's rhythm "books" I could not have just interpolated from listening to Dizzy Gillespie. I love listening to Stan Getz or Paul Desmond. But the horn doesn't translate one-to-one to the guitar. After trying to transcribe them for years I realized it was never going to work for the simple reason that horns have a MUCH larger dynamic pallet than the guitar. They didn't play a lot of notes, but the emotional range produced by the soft purring or percussive pops of a saxophone simply can't be matched by a guitar. We can do things they can't, but I was never going to match their sound no matter how much I transcribed. I could play the notes, but it didn't even begin to sound the same.

    Now, before someone half reads what I said and go off on an angry rant that I am anti-transcription... I DID NOT SAY DON'T TRANSCRIBE. I believe in transcribing, and have been helped by guided transcription with a teacher. I am just saying that for SOME people books can be a very valuable resource. For SOME people a transcribe only approach is going to be limiting. I believe a smart player looks to ALL learning avenues, and finds the ones that work best for them.

    No one yet has mentioned what I consider the absolute best way to learn: PLAY ON STAGE WITH BETTER PLAYERS THAN YOU! Unfortunately, that is near impossible for me, and speaking with @WILSON 1 I know that to be true for him too. We both live places where playing jazz guitar is a popular as playing Malawian Dedadee drums. Probably easier for me to find a Toureg fellow to chant with than finding someone willing to play jazz guitar. So books, lessons, and transcriptions for me.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    I thought we had agreed to banish “II-IV-I”. Kindly re-label that, “IV6-movement-I6”

    Jazz lines ideas


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The IV6 and the movement are optional. And you only need one note out of the I.

  9. #33

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    This is Pat Martino's phase from pg57. There is an optional fingering shown in the graphic.
    I tried PDF instead of multiple posts because it is broken down into three parts.

    The last portion of the phrase @measure 3 I've included in a solo over Autumn Leaves and hope to post that soon.

    Much of this has been a re-intro into jumps, skips, pivots and various other melodic devices that I've neglected, but some things are getting into my fingers.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #34

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    Why are you concerned about modes? The guys on the records certainly weren't, unless they were playing something expressly modal, and even then, they superimpose a lot of functional harmony over it.

  11. #35

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    I failed to mention, in this vid, that I see Autumn Leaves as written in G6 so the first chord is a II and I'm internalizing the song from the viewpoint of Dorian @ A in the key of G.