Study Group: A Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1 Pages 20 to 22

[fep]

Here we go. I just read thru the material. It doesn't seem any harder than last week although we have some new concepts introduced on page 21.

Remember to review. I just read thru this weeks material, now I'm going back to the beginning and today I'll read from page 1 to page 19.

[ten left thumbs]

I found some of the runs in those etudes more challenging than what came before. They needed special treatment.

One thing I found, and still find, is this. Take the note A on the 3rd string. I know where it is. Say I can go from G to A (that took forever to get). Then going from C to A was a totally different matter. Just because I could go from G to A didn't mean I still knew where A was if i had to get there from C. The whole C to A needed practice by itself, like the note had moved around.

I blame this on my atrocious spatial awareness - which is bad, even for a woman. If I can get from the house to the post office, and from the house to the school, I still need a map to get from the school to the post office.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I found some of the runs in those etudes more challenging than what came before. They needed special treatment.

One thing I found, and still find, is this. Take the note A on the 3rd string. I know where it is. Say I can go from G to A (that took forever to get). Then going from C to A was a totally different matter. Just because I could go from G to A didn't mean I still knew where A was if i had to get there from C. The whole C to A needed practice by itself, like the note had moved around.

I blame this on my atrocious spatial awareness - which is bad, even for a woman. If I can get from the house to the post office, and from the house to the school, I still need a map to get from the school to the post office.

It always cheers me up to hear you list things that you find hard (I find them harder so it makes me feel less incompetent).

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by Dazz

It always cheers me up to hear you list things that you find hard (I find them harder so it makes me feel less incompetent).

anything to oblige!

[fep]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

I would like to add an exercise for those who are ambitious. Starting at the 10th fret, play 1, 2, 3, 4 on frets 10, 11, 12, 13 (D, Eb, E, F). Keep each finger on the string, but release the pressure as you drop the next finger. When you're done, proceed to the 5th string, 10th fret and repeat, then the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, then the first string, all in 10th position. Play evenly, not too slowly, trying to get a good, consistent pick stroke and a fat sound from each note. Once you've reached the 1st string, move down to 9th position, over to the 2nd string and do the same (1,2,3,4), back to the 6th string, always keeping fingers on the current string, but not pressing hard except with the finger actually playing. Then 8th position, 5th string, across to the first, then 7th position, 2nd string, across to the 6th, all the way down to position 1.

I think it's best to start up high where the frets are closer and the string pressure less. If you can keep all fingers on the string you're playing until done with that string, you will develop a nice stretch in the left hand, as well as strength. This is not a speed study, more of a coordination between the two hands exercise. It won't take more than a few minutes, but done daily will really improve muscle tone.

So here's my attempt at explaining this and playing it:

YouTube Video

And Chet showing some dang good left hand technique (starting at about 1:06 of the video):

YouTube Video

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by fep

So here's my attempt at explaining this and playing it:



And Chet showing some dang good left hand technique (starting at about 1:06 of the video):

Nice video Frank, very clearly explained. And I love the Chet and Jerry tunes! You're right, Chet keeps the tips of his fingers very close to the strings. I just noticed that Jerry finger picks without using his 1st finger. Like a combination of finger picking and hybrid picking.

[ten left thumbs]

Thanks Frank that was an excellent demonstration. I had done the exercise Ron described, but not quite understood about keeping the fingers on. Will try later.

As an aside, piano technique is the same. You cover the fingers over keys where they will be needed. That way you can be faster and get decent control. Unless it's honky tonk. In which case you don't.

[jaydogg]

Cool exercise, I'll try to do this warming up today. It's funny it lines up with what someone else posted about the "Jazz Guitar Starting Right" on another thread. I tried to record Etude 1 yesterday, but my camera fought back... Hopefully I'll get it up today. Maybe I should get "Here We Go Again" on the other thread, too.

Btw, great Youtube. I used to have a record of those two. Found it in a 99 cent bin a few years ago. Unfortunately I lost track of it in moving a while back.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

I would like to add an exercise for those who are ambitious. Starting at the 10th fret, play 1, 2, 3, 4 on frets 10, 11, 12, 13 (D, Eb, E, F). Keep each finger on the string, but release the pressure as you drop the next finger. When you're done, proceed to the 5th string, 10th fret and repeat, then the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, then the first string, all in 10th position. Play evenly, not too slowly, trying to get a good, consistent pick stroke and a fat sound from each note. Once you've reached the 1st string, move down to 9th position, over to the 2nd string and do the same (1,2,3,4), back to the 6th string, always keeping fingers on the current string, but not pressing hard except with the finger actually playing. Then 8th position, 5th string, across to the first, then 7th position, 2nd string, across to the 6th, all the way down to position 1.

I think it's best to start up high where the frets are closer and the string pressure less. If you can keep all fingers on the string you're playing until done with that string, you will develop a nice stretch in the left hand, as well as strength. This is not a speed study, more of a coordination between the two hands exercise. It won't take more than a few minutes, but done daily will really improve muscle tone.

Originally Posted by fep

So here's my attempt at explaining this and playing it:

Thanks fep. I've been playing Ron's exercise as part of my daily warmup, but I understood it differently from you in two ways. First, after playing 1,2,3,4 on a string, I lift all my fingers and move them. Second, you play from strings 6 to 1 and back to 6 before moving down a fret, but I play from 6 to1, move down a fret, play from 2 to 6, move down a fret, play from 5 to 1 etc.

I do not know if I am correct, and I do not know enough about teaching guitar to know if it matters. But TLT mentioned that economy of motion is important for pianists, and it is important for reed players too. So one way or the other, it must be good that we are having this discussion.

Perhaps Ron will be kind enough to weigh in.


HighSpeed

[IrwinMFletcher]

So here's my attempt at Etude No. 1. Gutar 1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right. 72 bpm.

Etude No.1 by IMFletcher on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

My observations: I had at least two distinct flubs on the Guitar 1 part. On the other hand, I seem to be getting better at creating a more consistent pick attack that leads to more even volume and better tone. Also, I have found that if I start to push the tempo faster than 72 bpm I find myself making a significantly larger amount of errors. I am not too worried since I am a newbie at guitar, but I wish speed would come more easily.

[ten left thumbs]

Thanks for posting, Irwin! Sounds good and steady.

Frank - I tried the exercise as you demonstrated. It does feel like a challenge to command the fingers as strictly and independently as this, as I'm sure that is a good thing. The trouble I have is with the lower strings, when I reach up to say the 6th string, yet I'm picking the 5th, my fretting fingers mute the string. Trying to get them not to mute is a job in itself, and feels quite awkward and creates tension. Of course, if I work only from 1st-6th, then I don't have that problem. Do you reckon it's worth persisting?

[ten left thumbs]

I'm continuing to dot a little theory in each week, hopefully this will be accessible and helpful. Ron has already pointed out the understanding about sharps and flats really assumes knowledge of the major scale, so this is worth getting to grips with.

Music as we know it is based on collections of pitches that, for want of a better expression, sound good together. We call this the major scale. For each major scale, there is a tonic note (aka 1st note, do) that has a sense of 'coming home'. From that tonic note, going up, there is a pattern of intervals that determine the other notes of the scale:

tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, tone, semitone

or if you prefer:

Whole step, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half.

.. so that the 8th note is exactly an octave from where we started. The notes have been given names, and the piano laid out so that a major scale starting on C can be played on only the natural ('white') notes:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

Most of the time we just play tunes in the scales, and we don't especially need to think about why it is as it is - but it's really worth knowing the 'tone tone semi' so at any point you can go back to basics.

So for our C major scale we can give our letters numbers or names, according to where they come in the scale:

C = 1, do
D = 2, re
E = 3, mi
F = 4, fa
G = 5, so
A = 6, la
B = 7, ti

This helps tremendously when comparing tunes in different keys, or transposing a tune from one key to the other (without a capo). So, for instance I can play Jingle Bells: E E E, E E E, E G C D E. But I stop thinking about the exact notes, and think instead about their position in the scale, and now I get: 3 3 3, 3 3 3, 3 5 1 2 3.

Now, being clever, I can play the same thing in G. So if my G scale starts:

G=1
A=2
B= 3
C=4
D=5

To play Jingle bells in G, I start B B B...

So, the challenge for anyone with the patience to follow so far, is to play the start of Jingle Bells in C major, G major and F major. G and F should be possible in two different octaves.

Any questions? (I do hope I've not made any huge mistakes in all this!)

[oldhead]

Keep the theory coming. Love it.

I must be doing something wrong. I get 3 octaves in G and F.
If key of C starts on E, doesn't G start on B and F on A?

Key of C: 4th string, 2d fret, 1 stg, open, 1 stg 12th frt.
Key of G: 5th stg, 2d stg, open, 1 stg, 7th frt, 1st stg, 18th fret.
Key of F: 5stg, open, 3d strg, 2d frt, 1st stg, 5th fret, 16th fret

I'm really digging this theory and it's helping me learn the fretboard.

Let me know where I'm screwing up. Thanks, TLT

[oldhead]

Key of G I messed up - 5th stg, 2nd fret, then 2nd strg op.

[ten left thumbs]

No worries. Glad it's connecting. I find theory so enabling and empowering and I find it terrible when it comes across as disconnected from the music.

If you are willing to go right up the frets, then you can play in more octaves, I just meant that you can play jingle bells in two octaves (in F and G) using the notes leavitt has taught us so far.

Here's what to notice if you're doing this. You play in the key of C. It all sounds right. Then you switch to F. For a second it sounds weird, then quickly your ear adjusts to the new key centre, and all sounds good again. That's your ear making sense of the theory.

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

No worries. Glad it's connecting. I find theory so enabling and empowering and I find it terrible when it comes across as disconnected from the music.

If you are willing to go right up the frets, then you can play in more octaves, I just meant that you can play jingle bells in two octaves (in F and G) using the notes leavitt has taught us so far.

Here's what to notice if you're doing this. You play in the key of C. It all sounds right. Then you switch to F. For a second it sounds weird, then quickly your ear adjusts to the new key centre, and all sounds good again. That's your ear making sense of the theory.

Thanks for the clarification, TLT. I thought I was misreading the fretboard. Have to admit that starting on fret 16 and 18 makes it more difficult.

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

So here's my attempt at Etude No. 1. Gutar 1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right. 72 bpm.

Etude No.1 by IMFletcher on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

My observations: I had at least two distinct flubs on the Guitar 1 part. On the other hand, I seem to be getting better at creating a more consistent pick attack that leads to more even volume and better tone. Also, I have found that if I start to push the tempo faster than 72 bpm I find myself making a significantly larger amount of errors. I am not too worried since I am a newbie at guitar, but I wish speed would come more easily.

Nice job, Irwin. Very smooth, good tone, timing sounded good to my ear.
I think speed will come to all of us as we keep reviewing and forging ahead.

[IrwinMFletcher]

thanks for the compliments. although speed would be nice, i am really trying to focus on proper technique so that i can avoid developing any bad habits.

ten left thumbs, keep the theory coming. as a newbie its really helpful to understand they why, not just the how.

[fep]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Thanks for posting, Irwin! Sounds good and steady.

Frank - I tried the exercise as you demonstrated. It does feel like a challenge to command the fingers as strictly and independently as this, as I'm sure that is a good thing. The trouble I have is with the lower strings, when I reach up to say the 6th string, yet I'm picking the 5th, my fretting fingers mute the string. Trying to get them not to mute is a job in itself, and feels quite awkward and creates tension. Of course, if I work only from 1st-6th, then I don't have that problem. Do you reckon it's worth persisting?

"Awkward and tension", then it's not worth persisting with it. I think you can still achieve the benefits of stretching and training your finger positions even if you eliminate some of the lower strings from the exercise.

Something that some folks aren't aware of when they purchase their first guitars... There are different neck lengths and neck widths measured across the fretboard at the nut. For folks with small hands it is something to consider on your next guitar purchase.

[fep]

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

So here's my attempt at Etude No. 1. Gutar 1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right. 72 bpm.

Etude No.1 by IMFletcher on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

My observations: I had at least two distinct flubs on the Guitar 1 part. On the other hand, I seem to be getting better at creating a more consistent pick attack that leads to more even volume and better tone. Also, I have found that if I start to push the tempo faster than 72 bpm I find myself making a significantly larger amount of errors. I am not too worried since I am a newbie at guitar, but I wish speed would come more easily.

Nice smooth performance. The first guitar is maybe a bit low in the mix. Nice progress. Thanks for posting.

[fep]

My Attempt

YouTube Video

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by fep

"Awkward and tension", then it's not worth persisting with it. I think you can still achieve the benefits of stretching and training your finger positions even if you eliminate some of the lower strings from the exercise.

Something that some folks aren't aware of when they purchase their first guitars... There are different neck lengths and neck widths measured across the fretboard at the nut. For folks with small hands it is something to consider on your next guitar purchase.

Yes, I think so. I measured up - my pinkie finger is exactly as long as my fretboard is wide. So no wonder the wee guy wants to rest on the next string.

re your duet post: wag!

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by fep

My Attempt

As usual, FEP, very inspiring.

I notice on my CD there are no instruction files, just the exercises and duets played. Does anyone with the CD have instruction on each lesson?

[Aant]

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

So here's my attempt at Etude No. 1. Gutar 1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right. 72 bpm.

Etude No.1 by IMFletcher on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Very smooth, soothing, well executed. Keep on with the good work!

Originally Posted by fep

My Attempt
A Modern Method For Guitar Vol. 1 - Etude No. 1 page 20 - YouTube

As oldhead says, very inspiring as usual, don't have much to add except that i'm glad you post those videos. Leavitt will be jealous.

I've recorded the études (1 and 2) without chorus, but I forgot to pan! The playing could be clearer and more precise, but I wanted to also review the material from page 1 even though I did not really want to .

* Etude n°1
* Etude n°2

[Aant]

Originally Posted by fep

So here's my attempt at explaining this and playing it:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNpqulWYOv4&feature=youtu.be]Ron's Example - A modern Method For Guitar Vol. 1 - YouTube

Thanks for sharing fep, this kind of video really add value to the AMMFG study threads. It's indeed a good exercise to work on finger independence and on saving unnecessary movements, imho I think it's important to practice it slowly as it tires the fingers quickly when you're not used to it - at least for me.

It's been a long time since I've known this exercise actually, it was described in a publication in the french speaking part of Europe when I began playing the guitar, but I did not really practice it through the years. It's not easy to play at the beginning, and the article mentioned that (I don't remember who) a guitarist can play it at an outrageous speed, so I got discouraged at one point. It's a good things you guys shed some light on it!

Oh, and nice hat by the way

[fep]

My attempt...

I played around with panning and I settled on 65% to opposing sides for each guitar. Adds to the clarity I think. The hardest part for me was muting the low E at mm.11 & 15.

YouTube Video

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

So here's my attempt at Etude No. 1. Gutar 1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right. 72 bpm.

Etude No.1 by IMFletcher on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

My observations: I had at least two distinct flubs on the Guitar 1 part. On the other hand, I seem to be getting better at creating a more consistent pick attack that leads to more even volume and better tone. Also, I have found that if I start to push the tempo faster than 72 bpm I find myself making a significantly larger amount of errors. I am not too worried since I am a newbie at guitar, but I wish speed would come more easily.

Nicely done Irwin. All things come to those who wait - including speed. (I keep telling myself that too. )



HighSpeed

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

... re your duet post [fep, post #21]: wag!

wag +1



HighSpeed

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by Aant

... I've recorded the études (1 and 2) without chorus, but I forgot to pan! The playing could be clearer and more precise, but I wanted to also review the material from page 1 even though I did not really want to .

* Etude n°1
* Etude n°2

Nice job Aant. The recording is certainly clear. Also, we happen to have some relatively advanced players participating, but I have to think most people working their way through MM1 could be more precise; one has to start somewhere.



HighSpeed

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by fep

My attempt...

I played around with panning and I settled on 65% to opposing sides for each guitar. Adds to the clarity I think. The hardest part for me was muting the low E at mm.11 & 15.

Beautiful fep, and the panning must be good because this is a clear recording IMO. Also, I could not detect any difficulty you may have had with muting the low E.



HighSpeed