Study Group: A Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1 Pages 20 to 22

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by Aant

Very smooth, soothing, well executed. Keep on with the good work!



As oldhead says, very inspiring as usual, don't have much to add except that i'm glad you post those videos. Leavitt will be jealous.

I've recorded the études (1 and 2) without chorus, but I forgot to pan! The playing could be clearer and more precise, but I wanted to also review the material from page 1 even though I did not really want to .

* Etude n°1
* Etude n°2

Nice job Aant. Sounds good. Even though the pan isn't there, I can hear both parts clearly.

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

So here's my attempt at Etude No. 1. Gutar 1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right. 72 bpm.

Etude No.1 by IMFletcher on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

My observations: I had at least two distinct flubs on the Guitar 1 part. On the other hand, I seem to be getting better at creating a more consistent pick attack that leads to more even volume and better tone. Also, I have found that if I start to push the tempo faster than 72 bpm I find myself making a significantly larger amount of errors. I am not too worried since I am a newbie at guitar, but I wish speed would come more easily.

Very smooth Irwin, especially if you haven't been playing long. And recording makes it even harder to be smooth.

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by fep

My Attempt

Very nice. I like the energy and feel you put into it.

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by Aant

I've recorded the études (1 and 2) without chorus, but I forgot to pan! The playing could be clearer and more precise, but I wanted to also review the material from page 1 even though I did not really want to .

* Etude n°1
* Etude n°2

Good job on both recordings Aant. Nice tempo and timing was good. The only thing I might change would be to play the notes and chords a little lighter at times. Kind of feels like the dynamics are maxed out. Give yourself more headroom for when you *need* to increase the volume. Make sense? Not sure I explained what I meant.

I'd also turn off the compressor/sustainer effect. It messes with the dynamics too much in the context of the lessons. Just my opinion of course.

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by fep

My attempt...

I played around with panning and I settled on 65% to opposing sides for each guitar. Adds to the clarity I think. The hardest part for me was muting the low E at mm.11 & 15.

Feels good! For me the low E is muted with the pick hand thumb as I play the 5th string. I always mute open strings that way when going from a low to high string.

[Marty W]

Here's Etude No. 1 http://db.tt/QBm9jq8T

Not sure why the sound is mushy. I'm working on muting the chords and sometimes mute them too soon. Makes it too choppy. My goal is for them to ring until I play the next note but not past it.

Here's Etude No. 2 http://db.tt/LqkAVgXC

Had trouble with getting the notes even in part 1 bar 9. I blame the nylon string guitar! Also spaced out and almost missed the F in part 2 bar 16.

[ten left thumbs]

Hi Marty, that sounds good. I don't hear it as mushy. However if you want the overall sound cleaner, you could try a cleaner metronome click. For the overall learning, I don't think it's important.

[ronjazz]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

Thanks fep. I've been playing Ron's exercise as part of my daily warmup, but I understood it differently from you in two ways. First, after playing 1,2,3,4 on a string, I lift all my fingers and move them. Second, you play from strings 6 to 1 and back to 6 before moving down a fret, but I play from 6 to1, move down a fret, play from 2 to 6, move down a fret, play from 5 to 1 etc.

I do not know if I am correct, and I do not know enough about teaching guitar to know if it matters. But TLT mentioned that economy of motion is important for pianists, and it is important for reed players too. So one way or the other, it must be good that we are having this discussion.

Perhaps Ron will be kind enough to weigh in.


HighSpeed

Sounds exactly right, and once you're comfortable with it, try 1243, 1324, 1342, 1432 and 1423. In these, it is essential to keep the first finger on the string until done with the string. For fingerstylists, you can adapt right-hand patterns to the left-hand ones. For instance 1234 = imim; 1324 = imia, 1423 = iama; 1243 = mama, 1342 = imam, 1432 = iaia

[oldhead]

Page 20, Etude No. 1.
Page 20, Etude No. 1 .mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[Aant]

Originally Posted by Marty W

Good job on both recordings Aant. Nice tempo and timing was good. The only thing I might change would be to play the notes and chords a little lighter at times. Kind of feels like the dynamics are maxed out. Give yourself more headroom for when you *need* to increase the volume. Make sense? Not sure I explained what I meant.

I'd also turn off the compressor/sustainer effect. It messes with the dynamics too much in the context of the lessons. Just my opinion of course.

Absolutely, I've checked and there is indeed a sustainer effect - I did not pay too much attention to it. I'll get rid of it, especially when I listen to:

Originally Posted by Marty W

Marty W Here's Etude No. 1 http://db.tt/QBm9jq8T

Not sure why the sound is mushy. I'm working on muting the chords and sometimes mute them too soon. Makes it too choppy. My goal is for them to ring until I play the next note but not past it.

Here's Etude No. 2 http://db.tt/LqkAVgXC

Had trouble with getting the notes even in part 1 bar 9. I blame the nylon string guitar! Also spaced out and almost missed the F in part 2 bar 16.

It makes me realize that a classical guitar is well suited for the lessons. Those recordings sound very good, with a nice touch and all. Therefore I'm curious: did you use the rest-stroke technic?

Originally Posted by oldhead

Page 20, Etude No. 1.
Page 20, Etude No. 1 .mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Appart from one or two hesitations it sounds very good as well. I don't know if you had some effect on the guitar but the last sentence sounds a bit psychedelic... which is not unpleasant at all.

By the way, where is strumcat?

[oldhead]

No effects. I don't hear anything when I play it. Oh, well. Hesitations, yes. Could be from arthritis kicking up in first finger on left hand, which is making it next to impossible to play at times; thus I'm behind this week. Thanks for listening.

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by Aant

It makes me realize that a classical guitar is well suited for the lessons. Those recordings sound very good, with a nice touch and all. Therefore I'm curious: did you use the rest-stroke technic?

Thanks Aant. I think the only rest strokes I used are for the diads in bars 9 & 10 of Etude No. 2.

Btw, my classic is just a cheap Fender student model. It's still pretty cool and fun to play.

[fep]

Originally Posted by Marty W

Here's Etude No. 1 http://db.tt/QBm9jq8T

Not sure why the sound is mushy. I'm working on muting the chords and sometimes mute them too soon. Makes it too choppy. My goal is for them to ring until I play the next note but not past it.

Here's Etude No. 2 http://db.tt/LqkAVgXC

Had trouble with getting the notes even in part 1 bar 9. I blame the nylon string guitar! Also spaced out and almost missed the F in part 2 bar 16.

Both of these recordings are really well executed, very clean technique. I really like the sound of the strummed chords on Etude No. 1, nice light attack that lets the chords ring out nicely without the initial harshness of a heavy attack.

I don't care for the metronome but I suppose since it's a study group it's cool. Your time is really good so the metronome is a bit of a distraction. (For those whose time isn't so strong I do like the metronome in the mix.)

[fep]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

re your duet post: wag!

Originally Posted by oldhead

As usual, FEP, very inspiring.

I notice on my CD there are no instruction files, just the exercises and duets played. Does anyone with the CD have instruction on each lesson?

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

wag +1



HighSpeed

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

Beautiful fep, and the panning must be good because this is a clear recording IMO. Also, I could not detect any difficulty you may have had with muting the low E.



HighSpeed

Originally Posted by Marty W

Very nice. I like the energy and feel you put into it.

Originally Posted by Marty W

Feels good! For me the low E is muted with the pick hand thumb as I play the 5th string. I always mute open strings that way when going from a low to high string.

Thanks all for listening and your encouragement.

Oldhead, I don't have the CD

[fep]

Originally Posted by Aant

I've recorded the études (1 and 2) without chorus, but I forgot to pan! The playing could be clearer and more precise, but I wanted to also review the material from page 1 even though I did not really want to .

* Etude n°1
* Etude n°2

Etude 1, well executed, only technique critique would be to experiment with picking lighter.

Mix critique, set the compressor lower (not sure if it's in the mixdown or a guitar effect during recording. Try setting the compressor where is only activates on the large volume peaks and try a ratio around 3 to 1. Listen for a natural sound where you're just using the compressor to smooth out the spikey spikes in the performance and squeeze a bit more volume out of the recording.

Etude 2, good time, good performance. The compressor sounds toned down on this one. One way to mellow out the spikes is to pick softer.

[fep]

Originally Posted by oldhead

Page 20, Etude No. 1.
Page 20, Etude No. 1 .mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Good progress. I do hear a couple of hiccups in the timing, but no big deal. Overall your time was good... And that metronome is still going in my headphones... still going... ah it stopped

[oldhead]

Originally Posted by fep

Good progress. I do hear a couple of hiccups in the timing, but no big deal. Overall your time was good... And that metronome is still going in my headphones... still going... ah it stopped

Wow, I didn't realize I left that track when I made the MP3. I think I had it set up for 100 measures. Sorry about that - I know you listen to the end.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Sounds exactly right, and once you're comfortable with it, try 1243, 1324, 1342, 1432 and 1423. In these, it is essential to keep the first finger on the string until done with the string. For fingerstylists, you can adapt right-hand patterns to the left-hand ones. For instance 1234 = imim; 1324 = imia, 1423 = iama; 1243 = mama, 1342 = imam, 1432 = iaia

Thanks very much Ron. I'm glad I understood you.



HighSpeed

[fep]

It's really something how far this material has progressed and we have progressed in about a month.

How many pages should we go after for next week?

I'm leaning towards 2 pages or maybe 3. That first solo seems to be another step forward in difficulty and new chords are introduced on the Rhythm Accompaniment page.

I'm thinking we don't want to drop anyone and the folks that get thru the material more quickly can find other things to work on.

What do you think?

[Marty W]

2 pages is fine with me. Whatever everyone else wants to do.

1st solo is an exercise in muting. 2nd solo lets the chords ring more while playing single notes. Both are a challenge and we would benefit in the long run by taking it slow.

[jsepguitar]

I've tried 1st solo and it's a challenge for me, so I'm good with 2 pages, but I don't want to hold anyone back.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

I could be happy with two pages. If it turns out I can do three, then I'll will do three and simply be up for more work on the following week. I'm willing to try for three though if that's what the group wants.



HighSpeed

[va3ux]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Thanks for posting, Irwin! Sounds good and steady.

Frank - I tried the exercise as you demonstrated. It does feel like a challenge to command the fingers as strictly and independently as this, as I'm sure that is a good thing. The trouble I have is with the lower strings, when I reach up to say the 6th string, yet I'm picking the 5th, my fretting fingers mute the string. Trying to get them not to mute is a job in itself, and feels quite awkward and creates tension. Of course, if I work only from 1st-6th, then I don't have that problem. Do you reckon it's worth persisting?

The most obvious thing here is to not leave any fingers on the 6th string when you go to play the first note on the 5th string with your index finger. Instead, reposition all the fingers right over the frets they're about to play on the 5th string. This is actually even more efficient than what has been shown so far.

I think the real point of this exercise is to develop finger independence by fretting just the current note and not 'pre-fretting' a note or leaving any previous notes fretted - AND - not having any unused fingers flying around in the air as Frank demonstrated. With that in mind, it is not necessary to leave fingers 2-3-4 still touching the 6th string while finger 1 frets the 5th string. Instead, try to have fingers 2-3-4 hovering right over top of the frets they're about to play on the 5th string as soon as the 6th string is all finished. Again, this is a modification of the way Frank has demonstrated, in order to accommodate your hand size and guitar neck specifically and it still accomplishes the goal of the exercise.

[ten left thumbs]

Here is my recording for this week, pg 20:

Etude 1 pg 20.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

As for next week, I would suggest only two pages. The first solo is quite a challenge, the second solo more so, from what I remember, so perhaps best to spread them out. Pg 24 is rhythm, to balance things out. If anyone wants more, I would suggest (dare I?) skipping ahead to pg27, preparation - the first two lines only. These are not terribly difficult, they sound wonderful and it would be good to get them down some time before tackling the rest of the page.

For myself, I am venturing into part two of the book, finding some of it quite doable and other parts horrendously difficult. I have booked myself a single lesson with a local teacher (this is they guy that got me onto the book), just to check over what I'm doing. Quite excited about the lesson!

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Here is my recording for this week, pg 20:

Etude 1 pg 20.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

As for next week, I would suggest only two pages. The first solo is quite a challenge, the second solo more so, from what I remember, so perhaps best to spread them out. Pg 24 is rhythm, to balance things out. If anyone wants more, I would suggest (dare I?) skipping ahead to pg27, preparation - the first two lines only. These are not terribly difficult, they sound wonderful and it would be good to get them down some time before tackling the rest of the page.

For myself, I am venturing into part two of the book, finding some of it quite doable and other parts horrendously difficult. I have booked myself a single lesson with a local teacher (this is they guy that got me onto the book), just to check over what I'm doing. Quite excited about the lesson!

Very nice upload TLT. Your lesson sounds exciting, and you have enough music background to approach it with very focused goals. Please let us know how it turns out and what insights etc you took away from it.



HighSpeed

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Here is Etude No. 1 on p.20 at 72bpm.

I slowed things down a bit and think I'm following the metronome better than last week, although there are instances where the rhythm could be tighter. For some reason, I notice myself wanting to rush the 4 eighth note sequences starting on low G.

When listening to the recordings I also noticed that the bottom part is too separated (portato) for my taste - not quite staccato, but along those lines. This is ironic, because in several places there are quarter notes on beats 1 and 3 that one is tempted to hold with the chord that follows on beat 2 and 4. The ironic thing is that I was working on muting the quarter notes to play them as written, and would up playing the chords overly portato.

I also missed the C at m.7 b1 and played the final C chord in the bottom part a bit late: I still have trouble grabbing the F, C resolution in tempo - but it's coming along.



HighSpeed

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Sometimes it's convenient to use musical terminology - but it's not convenient when we don't understand the terms being used. If this problem ever comes up, there is a good chance that the term is defined in Wikipedia's Glossary of Musical Terminology. They also have pages dedicated to explaining tempos and - for future reference - ornamentation.

If you know of other or better resources, please share them.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Here is Etude No. 2 on p.22 at 80 bpm.


I thought the picking was better and more even (for me). I didn't grab the A cleanly at m.9 b1, and I felt the two note chords might have been strummed more smoothly and perhaps gently.

[ten left thumbs]

Thanks for the encouragement HSS. I was a little shaken at the injury I caused myself last month (I think) through guitar playing and I promised myself once I got up and strumming again I would have this teacher check over what I am doing.

I listened to both your recordings. I honestly think they are good and you are ready for the solo which comes next - and you are going to enjoy! It's quite a thing to think - you have actually learned to read music out of this. Ok, there are a few refinements from here on in, but basically, you got it!

As for the low F and C - I also find this awkward. For me the trick is to accept and be totally happy with the idea I need to get my whole hand into a particular shape (I call it F-chord shape). It doesn't feel comfortable yet - but it does feel just slightly less uncomfortable than when i started, so I'm hoping I'll get there happily. Basically, no amount of finger stretching is going to help, unless my hand is in the correct orientation.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Speaking of encouragement: Thank you too TLT!

Regarding the F ==> C change: Occasionally my left hand fingers seem to acquire a mind of their own and move as a unit into the right places without me thinking about it. I'm not aware of having any control over when this happens. At other times I have to close my eyes - for real or metaphorically - and visualize the fingers and pick moving. Visualizing is always helpful to me - the clearer the better - but the fingers do not always move as a unit when I visualize.

I'm not sure what's up with that, but I suppose visualizing is step to just "knowing" what to do - like when we speak but do not think about how to move our tongue, lips etc.