Need some advice on finding a teacher

[mastodonovan]

Hi ya'll. I'm 20 years old and have been playing since i was 11 so I can play, I'm not great or anything but I can play. I've been dabbling with jazz for a year now and have started to get serious enough to need a teacher. My friend recomended his teacher that he studied with before he went to a university. Now the thing is I'm already in a touring band and a working musician and this teacher wants me to work though "a modern method for guitar" with him and I don't know if what I'm looking for in a teacher is some one to teach me a book, I was hoping of more of a guy to teach me tunes and about chords, arpeggios, voicings, etc. to me it seems like this would be better to my progress than working on scales/modes and out of a book. All thoughts are appreciated

Best from donnie

[bobby d]

Working with a teacher, he should know what your goals are or what kind of guitarist you want to be. Of course, you have to know that yourself before the teacher can suggest what lessons would be best for you.

Is it a Jazz guitar book or guitar in general? Method books don't usually have known songs because they would have to pay to use published songs. So the alternative is for the teacher to come up with other materials besides method books IMHO.

I would have you work on songs that use Jazz chords and work with you on improvising utilizing scales, chords, arpeggios that could be used in that song. To me, a scale is seven notes more or less, but the notes in the scale can be arranged in many ways other than up and down. If you don't like the book, you can either get another teacher or let the teacher know what you're thinking and see if he has other methods that would be better for you.

[mastodonovan]

it's not a jazz guitar method book. its the william leavitt method books that they use at berklee. I guess the main reason why I'm opposed to the book is because it just seems like a lot of time and money going in to studies that will not take me very far or truly give me experience needed for musical situations. Am i being arrogant or illogical?

[bobby d]

Berklee has produced some great Jazz guitarists. Looks like you'll be forced into learning to read music with this book, which may be really good. I never got very good at reading music, but learned a lot by ear. I lost opportunities to play with some really good bands that required the ability to read notation. They had interest in my chops but without being a good reader they weren't interested.

If I were you, I'd give it a few months and see how you like it. There are so many free materials on the internet that weren't available when I was in my 9th year of playing. But a good teacher should help you to learn properly. And hopefully, someone else will reply haha.

[Badge]

I reckon you should consider skype lessons with someone like Matt Warnock - that's how he teaches!

[mr. beaumont]

Well, honestly, the bit about being in a touring band is arrogant. Nobody cares, means nothing. Plenty of cats in touring bands couldn't play jazz if their life depended on it.

Sounds like he's trying to give you a crash course in reading...leavitts an ass kicker

Of course, it doesn't matter how well respected this guy is, if he can't play jazz he isn't going to be able to teach you to play it.

[JakeAcci]

You have an interesting situation. I don't think there is necessarily a clear answer without more information given. Have you heard your teacher play jazz? Do you like his playing? Have you seen the results he's produced in other students? Do you feel like you can communicate with him clearly?

The way I think these things should go down is: You meet with the teacher for the first time, he asks you what your goals are or what you want to work on, and he gives you the best suggestions he can think of of what to do or practice to help you reach those goals.

From there, there is no use arguing with him. If you like his playing and you've seen that he produces results in other students he's had, then you really should just buck up and take his word for it that he's putting you on the good path. The path to achieving your goals will definitely involve some work that is not necessarily fun or instantly gratifying, so you have to be prepared for that. If you respect him as a player and teacher, then respect his methods and humble yourself to know that he decides the method, not you. You're not the teacher - you're not yet knowledgeable enough to know what is the best way to learn how to play jazz guitar.

And personally I think that if your goal is to play jazz, then learning how to read is very important and may even take priority over the other stuff you mentioned, but it really depends a lot on where you are at now.

But if things didn't go down how they should have, and this teacher just started teaching you without a discussion of what you are trying to get out of these lessons, then you need to either open up communication about your goals, or consider staying with him if you respect him and think he will still help you improve your playing dramatically.

Sometimes salty, close minded jerks can actually be good teachers...cracking the whip and making you do the hard stuff that will pay off later.

And if you don't like his playing, or you haven't seen any of his students play, or he didn't come highly recommended by someone you respect, then that's something to think about.

But I want to repeat - the teacher decides the path towards the goal, not the student. The student doesn't argue about methods because the student is not only unfamiliar with different methods, but not anywhere near familiar enough with the material to even make an intelligent choice between different methods.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by mastodonovan

I was hoping of more of a guy to teach me tunes and about chords, arpeggios, voicings, etc. to me it seems like this would be better to my progress than working on scales/modes and out of a book.

Hey Donnie
I think all the previous posts are good, they have good advice. Please take mine as one humble suggestion in a crowd. I think if you know you want to find someone to teach you tunes and what they're made up of, then do ask your teacher to take that approach. If he's enamoured of the Leavitt method and feels that's the way to go, do consider someone that can relate to you where you are right now. Sometimes a student has an idea in mind, it can be really fruitful to address that idea for all it's worth and let that be the doorway to the virtues of other aspects later. I, for one, would not put Leavitt on the top of my list of reading books but see its value. Personal choice, I prefer Leon White's intervallic and rhythmic approach but if a student wanted Leavitt, I'd go that way, or I'd explain why I don't agree and leave them the option of finding another teacher. I've told students I don't see myself as their best teacher. It's their choice after that.
What I'm saying is a teacher/student relationship should be a close one, at least in outlook. Spend your next lesson seeing if you can look at your expectations eye to eye. Teachers are human, they are full of prejudices and they tend to teach the way they were taught, especially before years of open minded experience. Find someone you are likely to feel good sharing your own evolution with. Leave a teacher you don't feel that with.
And I've heard plenty of stories of students dismissing good teachers and then appreciating their value years later. When you can hear the value of a teacher's approach, that's when you should be working with them.
Good luck
David

[mastodonovan]

Thank you all for the guidance. Sorry about the touring band comments I know it seems a little snobby. I just can't help being hasteful being a youngin gettin out there I want to burn ya know, I don't wanna practice things that won't help me that much in the live musical situation but maybe thats just a discipline issue with my self. I still have to have that introductory lesson with him and after that it's pretty much pay for 4 upfront or he's not interested. I'll keep ya'll posted. Thanks again for the insights.

Donnie

[mr. beaumont]

It's all good...just remember in jazz there's gonna be a learning stage...you aren't gonna be gigging it next week if you've never thought this way before...

[ybjazz]

I highly recommend the Leavitt book, and I highly recommend taking it seriously. It's not a jazz book by any means, but it's a book that's going to teach you how to play in time, how to read, how to read semi difficult pieces, and make you a better player. I know there's a lot of great guitarists out there that don't read music, but in the year 2012- most working professionals do. If you can't, you are at a disadvantage and it's going to take you a really long time to learn a lot of tunes.

Secondly, reading sets you up for success when learning the concepts of jazz improvisation. If you have strong reading skills, you can learn melodies quickly. Reading should also expand into understanding how to read chord changes and how to interpret them.

From your last response, "I don't wanna practice things that won't help me that much in the live musical situation but maybe thats just a discipline issue with my self." To me, that sounds like somebody that's far from ready to dive into the complexities of jazz improvisation, and I would agree that I think that's a discipline issue. My advice to you- do the Leavitt book, do it right, and do it with a metronome. Playing things in time, with good technique, and a good knowledge of the fingerboard will help you in any live situation.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

I, for one, would not put Leavitt on the top of my list of reading books but see its value.

Wanted to quote this as I do agree.

Having a method book (or just a method) for reading is very important, but having used Leavitt, I'm not a huge fan.

[mastodonovan]

I've taken 2 lessons now and feeling good about this guy for my level right now. He's got me working through modern method and he's understanding of my reading level and doesn't grill me too hard which is nice ; ) he's also started me on a tune! He's got me on "Fall" by Wayne Shorter which I hadn't heard before but really dug it when I started learning it.

[mr. beaumont]

"Fall?" Jesus, this guy doesn't have a clue.

The equivalent of taking a student driver on the autobahn.

If you wanna play jazz, start reading some parker heads and learn to play changes...this guy is giving you a tune to learn like that is ridiculous.

[bobby d]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

"Fall?" Jesus, this guy doesn't have a clue.

The equivalent of taking a student driver on the autobahn.

If you wanna play jazz, start reading some parker heads and learn to play changes...this guy is giving you a tune to learn like that is ridiculous.

Just wondering why this song seems ridiculous? Is there any way to get started learning Jazz without learning Parker? That's really not the kind of stuff I want to play.

[mr. beaumont]

Wayne Shorter's writing in the 60's just might have been the absolute peak of the combination of harmonic complexity and freedom.

It's heavy stuff.

Ask any good player how they cut their teeth. It wasn't wayne shorter tunes.

It actually makes me a little mad that someone woould throw "fall" at someone who hasn't even learned to play changes.

[ronjazz]

It does seem strange, there is little confluence between the Modern Method and Wayne Shorter.

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by mastodonovan

...this teacher wants me to work though "a modern method for guitar"

Get the Leavitt book and join the study group on this forum. Best value for your $, IMHO. fep is doing a great job leading the group. You'll learn how to read, and much more...