Study Group: A Modern Method For Guitar Vol 1 Pages 12 to 14

[fep]

Good job all, we're moving on (though you can always post work on the prior pages to the prior threads).

We've got more material to practice, remember to review all the material we've gone over. This week we finish learning all the notes of the C scale in 1st position. I also see one more chord fingering being introduced.

It seems a lot of us see the chord playing with a rest stroke to be the most difficult technique introduced. Perhaps some focused practice on that technique everyday is a good idea.

Cheers,

Frank

[Help!I'maRock!]

thanks for taking the lead, Frank; and really to everybody involved. i've struggled with this book in the past and the discussions here have really helped me.

[ten left thumbs]

Random thoughts on this material.

I find ledger lines a pain to read. I understand why they're there, but I still find them a pain. Up to low G I can read fine. Low E and low F stump me every time.

Second, pg 13, last bar of second from last line, where the melody takes two voices - beauty! I love that stuff. That's why I'm doing this.

[Aant]

As we've moved on, I've recorded Imitation Duet.
Self critic: This track has been recorded at 120 bpm, to work on rhythm.I should actually practice at a lower tempo because it's hard to play those 2 guitars exactly together.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Random thoughts on this material.

I find ledger lines a pain to read. I understand why they're there, but I still find them a pain. Up to low G I can read fine. Low E and low F stump me every time. ...

Don't worry about the ledger lines TLT. Those problems will disappear before you know it.



HighSpeed

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

Don't worry about the ledger lines TLT. Those problems will disappear before you know it.



HighSpeed

I live in hope.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I live in hope.

I'm right down the block in endless fantasy.

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by Aant

As we've moved on, I've recorded Imitation Duet.
Self critic: This track has been recorded at 120 bpm, to work on rhythm.I should actually practice at a lower tempo because it's hard to play those 2 guitars exactly together.

Sounds good to me Aant. Nice job.

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

I'm right down the block in endless fantasy.

Funny!

[Marty W]

Here's page 13 Ex. 10: http://db.tt/8aB0A5ws

I'm trying to be picky (maybe too picky?) and mute the chords at the exact right time instead of letting them ring too long, like I usually would. Paying more attention to details is one of my goals.

In measure 1 it says the C triad is supposed to ring for 2 beats and stop as we play the E on beat 3. I muted the C triad a little bit early there, and other places as well. Something I need to work on.

Also had some lazy sounding rest strokes in there.

[ten left thumbs]

Sounds good, Marty. I like this exercise.

[richard vandyne]

hey marty excellent job well done in good time and clear!!!! keep it up.

[Aant]

Originally Posted by Marty W

Here's page 13 Ex. 10: http://db.tt/8aB0A5ws

I'm trying to be picky (maybe too picky?) and mute the chords at the exact right time instead of letting them ring too long, like I usually would. Paying more attention to details is one of my goals.

In measure 1 it says the C triad is supposed to ring for 2 beats and stop as we play the E on beat 3. I muted the C triad a little bit early there, and other places as well. Something I need to work on.

Also had some lazy sounding rest strokes in there.

And that's a valuable goal, it will surely greatly pay at one point. The muting sounds very good imo, and so do the rest strokes, I find it excellent as well.

[Help!I'maRock!]

Page 12, Exercise 9: http://db.tt/vyRJzD0L

[richard vandyne]

hey rock well done like the posative way you went about your business. now you have the pleasure of no 10 onward!!!!!

[fingerstyler]

Hello Everyone,

I've recorded the review on page 13. This time for fun I practiced it a bit then recorded a bunch of takes as I normally would. I started to cut out all of the false starts, and takes with wrong notes etc, when I decided to just leave it all (most of it) in there for fun. I started out around 80bpm which is slow enough that I think my brain turns off between notes so there are some gaffs there. I then went up to I think 120bpm with a few flubs and false starts and managed I think 1 good take then got it up to 176bpm and the final take was pretty good with some dynamics on the last two scalar runs.

It's funny the second to last take around 4min 10sec in I flub a note and that was just enough to throw me off completely and kill the recording. I don't play live so that's something I need to get better at for sure and playing slower which is definitely harder.

Here is the link warts and all!

2012_01_17_Leavitt_Review_page13.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage


I'd like to comment on the other recordings but I can't open the quicktime files for some reason. I will need to figure that out.

Cheers,
fs

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by fingerstyler

Hello Everyone,

I've recorded the review on page 13. This time for fun I practiced it a bit then recorded a bunch of takes as I normally would. ... I started out around 80bpm which is slow enough that I think my brain turns off between notes so there are some gaffs there. I then went up to I think 120bpm with a few flubs and false starts and managed I think 1 good take then got it up to 176bpm and the final take was pretty good with some dynamics on the last two scalar runs. ...

Great job fingerstyler. That sounds very nice. By coincidence, I was just practicing that at the 80 bpm you started with, and that was fast enough for me. But getting back to your recording: You are right that your concentration seems to improve in the later, faster takes. It's very pretty to listen to. One thing - I seem to recall some conversation about picking versus using the fingers but I don't remember the upshot of it. Are you picking? It sounds so remarkably smooth (he said, speaking as someone who is working hard to get an even strum).



HighSpeed

[fingerstyler]

Hi High Speed Spoon,

I think the slower metronome speeds make it more obvious for me when I'm on and off the beat and there is enough time for me to "think" about the next note rather than just play it. If that makes any sense...

I am playing fingerstyle which probably makes playing chords a lot easier. So maybe that's cheating. I've tried playing with a pick in the past and just couldn't get it. I played the chords with thumb first and middle finger - pim to the classical people. The bass scales where played with thumb and the other scale passages where played with i and m.

I should also admit that I've gone through most of this book already in the past year. I'm actually on the 3rd position major scales page 112-113. But I'm using this opportunity to review and to discuss the book before moving on to book 2.

thanks for listening!
fs

[fingerstyler]

Theory question: what is the reason for the tie between the f and e on measure 28 of the review on page 13?

Thanks,
fs

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by fingerstyler

Theory question: what is the reason for the tie between the f and e on measure 28 of the review on page 13?

Thanks,
fs

My copy doesn't have that. But if there is one, it's not a tie but a slur - indication to play as legato as possible.

I know it looks the same but it's only a tie if it connects two notes that are the same.

sometimes they use them to indicate hammer ons and pull offs, but I don't think that's the case here as we haven't done them.

[fep]

Originally Posted by fingerstyler

Theory question: what is the reason for the tie between the f and e on measure 28 of the review on page 13?

Thanks,
fs

My m.28 does not have that marking.

The arched lines can indicate various things, a tie, a slur, a legato, a group of notes that make up a phrase. If it is attaching an E to an F then it would be a slur. In this case I believe it is just a printing error or an error that the editor didn't catch.

The version of the book I'm looking at it was purchased near the end of December, 2011. When was your book purchased?

(BTW, If you're interested m.28 is the 'official' way to abbreviate "measure 28", mm. 24-28 is the way to abbreviate multiple measures. Writing the whole word is of course fine also)

[fep]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

My copy doesn't have that. But if there is one, it's not a tie but a slur - indication to play as legato as possible.

I know it looks the same but it's only a tie if it connects two notes that are the same.

sometimes they use them to indicate hammer ons and pull offs, but I don't think that's the case here as we haven't done them.

My understanding is there is a minor distinction between a slur and a legato on guitar. With a slur you only pick the first note and slide or hammer-on or pull-off into the second note. Legato is as you know to play the notes as smoothly and connected as possible and you would generally pick every note of a legato phrase on the guitar.

There's also a 'legato technique' where you are picking as few notes as possible and hammering-on and pulling-off for most of the notes. This technique is often used with 3 note per string scale fingerings. I think this is a relatively recent term. Was it started by the metal genre?

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Thanks for the explanation fep. FWIW, there is a similar distinction for horn players, where legato still means connected and slur means "don't tongue". To me, a "tie" is used as TLT said: between two notes of the same pitch (and often - but not always - across measures). Finally, sometimes one sees markings that group notes together into phrases. These markings look like slurs, but may be applied to a "long" sequence of notes.

BTW, there is no slur in my edition either, but I have run across other typos in MM1 and documented one of them in the pp 1-8 thread. My version did not have this particular slur. Nevertheless, after conferring with fep, I re-bought volume 1 about a week ago, and the other typos were gone.

[ten left thumbs]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Frank. So there's a difference between legato and legato technique. I would never have guessed!

HSS - yes, a slur for a wind instrument means don't tongue, just slide from the previous note.

[Help!I'maRock!]

Exercise 10 - Review: http://db.tt/IEGnIbyJ

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by fingerstyler

Hello Everyone,

I've recorded the review on page 13.

Here is the link warts and all!

2012_01_17_Leavitt_Review_page13.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Cheers,
fs

Didn't listen to the whole thing but it sounds good fs, you have a nice touch.

Being super picky here but I think you're letting your 1/2 note chords ring too long. Like in measures 1,3 & 5. Admittedly it sounds better to let them ring but I think we're supposed to cut them off on beat 3. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[fep]

Originally Posted by Marty W

Didn't listen to the whole thing but it sounds good fs, you have a nice touch.

Being super picky here but I think you're letting your 1/2 note chords ring too long. Like in measures 1,3 & 5. Admittedly it sounds better to let them ring but I think we're supposed to cut them off on beat 3. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Hi Marty,

I agree with you, that's the way it is written.

However, Leavitt hasn't made it clear how to go about muting. He did discuss using the pad of your right hand at the Rhythm Accompaniment at page 11, but I don't think that applies here when you are just trying to mute one note.

If you are trying to mute a note on a higher string, a rest stroke seems to be a good way to go. But, how do you mute the open string D note on the 5th measure?... I try set my index finger of my left hand lightly on the string simultaneously with fretting the A note on the third string, this is an unfamiliar and awkward technique for me.

Sort of frustrating in that the muting is so much easier to deal with once you move away from the 1st position.

[ronjazz]

Two things:

1. legato means "connected". In order to play legato on the guitar, both ascending and descending slurs are often used. While it's altogether possible to play legato while picking each note, it isn't the best way, although it's a good exercise for left and right hand coordination.
2. Muting can be done with the side or heel of the right hand, or with the little finger of the left hand, also called "apagado" in Flamenco technique.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock!

Exercise 10 - Review: http://db.tt/IEGnIbyJ

sounds good, Rock. If I'm not mistaken there's a little mistake in bar 28 - just mentioning it in case you hadn't noticed it.

[ten left thumbs]

OK, I'm posting from Reading Studies for Guitar, pg 5. This book is not essential, however, I have it and I have been dipping a little. These exercises go a little beyond what we have encountered in the main book, but not drastically so. I post them here in case anyone is interested. There are a few mistakes, but you get the general idea.

reading studies pg5a.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
reading studies pg5b.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[Marty W]

Originally Posted by fep

Hi Marty,

I agree with you, that's the way it is written.

However, Leavitt hasn't made it clear how to go about muting. He did discuss using the pad of your right hand at the Rhythm Accompaniment at page 11, but I don't think that applies here when you are just trying to mute one note.

If you are trying to mute a note on a higher string, a rest stroke seems to be a good way to go. But, how do you mute the open string D note on the 5th measure?... I try set my index finger of my left hand lightly on the string simultaneously with fretting the A note on the third string, this is an unfamiliar and awkward technique for me.

Sort of frustrating in that the muting is so much easier to deal with once you move away from the 1st position.

Thanks Frank, since he's unclear on the muting I guess we can play it however we want. I'm really not sure. Looking ahead to page 23 First Solo, it's very clear that the the chord in m.1 only rings on beat 2. So we have that to look forward to!

I used the pad muting technique on ex. 10 and wasn't very happy with the results. Seems like it takes too long. In m.1, I can hear a short rest between muting the C triad and playing the E note on beat 3. I can do it much smoother using fret hand muting.

On ex.10 m.5.... as I'm playing the open G on beat 3 I mute the open D with the thumb of my picking hand. Weird but it works

Marty