Study Group: A Modern Method For Guitar Vol 1 pages 1 to 8

[fep]

Okay it's Jan. 1st... 8:15 AM on Jan 1st in Melbourne.

So let the fun begin. This week, through Jan. 8th, we will be discussing and working on pages 1 through 7 (next week will be pages 8 through 11.

Here are the general guidelines for posting to the study group (I'm just trying to keep things organized):





Here are the links where you can post questions, comments, recordings etc. not specific to this thread:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...olume-one.html
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...g-leavitt.html
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...nt-thread.html

[fep]

Here is a list of the links to all the 'Study Group' threads for 'A Modern Method For Guitar Vol 1':

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...tml#post214220

[fep]

There is a lot of material presented on page 3. But it's just a matter of memorization. For those of you that this is new, feel free to chime in with questions.

Once you get into the exercises and tunes, how do intend to schedule your practice?

If your are tight for time, I'm a believer in short focused practice sessions. I think two 15 minute practice sessions can be better than one 40 minute practice session.

Sometimes it's a pain to use a metronome and I don't practice enough with one. I vow to always use a metronome while going through the Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1 (MM1) book.

[fep]

There are some things that are skipped on page 3. Like how to hold the guitar. So this topic is not actually on page 3, but I think it should be one of the first things learned.

I wanted to start a disicussion of left hand position and risk of wrist injuries. Especially for the beginners, this is the time to develop good habits.

Anyways, this is how I do it:

YouTube Video

I do use my thumb to grab the sixth string occasionally for chord playing, but more than 95% of the time I keep my thumb near the middle of the neck as pictured.

[ten left thumbs]

ooh! let the fun begin...

metronome, that sounds like a new years resolution?

ok, i will share something a guitar teacher once told me. i did need to be told, it wasn't in any of the books, or any youtube vids i had seen. simple thing. he told me to fret the string just behind the fret - course you can fret it anywhere, and as a beginner the middle seemed like a good spot - but if you stop the string just behind the fret, then you greatly reduce the pressure needed.

pg 3 is a lot to take in. its memory work, also a lot of just plain accepting that's how it is, and understanding the system. in real life people take a while to learn to read music.

its fun looking over these pages again and i'll try to make a recording this week. i remember being entranced by the duet.

[ten left thumbs]

like the video, fep, you're a natural for the camera.

i remember internet discussions about not putting the thumb over, but leaving it on the back of the neck, and *totally* not understanding. where else would i put my thumb? the i realised that most guitarists have hand a couple sizes up from me and the thumb actually *can* go over top. lol

[gingerjazz]

Pages 1 to 7.Two things do you guys and girls think we should be playing using all down strokes as i believe that's were the book heads later playing down strokes on the downbeats.The other thing ,is it worth mentioning what the chords are just in case anyone is wondering about the inverted triads etc,or should we leave that until the book explains them later.

[PirateNigel]

I play a Telecaster and have larger hands. They measure 8 inches from heel to tip of middle finger.

I find my thumb being all over the place when I play. But I think the secret to that is that I don't put a lot of pressure with my hand when gripping chords or playing lines. Sometimes I even find myself having my thumb off of the neck when playing. I know this is somewhat unique.

I've attached 3 pictures to show how when my thumb does go over the neck I still don't get my wrist into a position that is painful.

Picture 1 is me playing a Bb13 chord , Picture 2 is me gripping a Eb9, and the 3rd picture is me running some major scale up the neck.

If you see something here that should be corrected let me know. I feel like it's comfortable and as I said I consider myself to have large hands. I am open to be corrected though. Especially if it helps me avoid future pain and heartache.

Personally I think some discussion while we go through the exercises would prove beneficial in the end. For example, exercise 2 includes arpeggios for some chords. 1-3-5. C-E-G. THen the chord.

EDIT: Nice video. I was trying to figure out how to do a video like that using my audiobox for the sound but couldn't get it to work.

[fep]

Originally Posted by PirateNigel

I've attached 3 pictures to show how when my thumb does go over the neck I still don't get my wrist into a position that is painful.

EDIT: Nice video. I was trying to figure out how to do a video like that using my audiobox for the sound but couldn't get it to work.

Looks good to me, I think the key is to keep the wrist from doing that reverse bend. Same thing they talked about at work regarding typing and then gave us those pads to raise our wrists. You have the luxury of having big hands, and what you're doing looks like it's working.

I think I'm going to address how I do videos over at the other thread, probably not until tomorrow.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by fep

Looks good to me, I think the key is to keep the wrist from doing that reverse bend. Same thing they talked about at work regarding typing and then gave us those pads to raise our wrists. You have the luxury of having big hands, and what you're doing looks like it's working.

I think I'm going to address how I do videos over at the other thread, probably not until tomorrow.

So that bend on the far right picture is okay? I've always tried to keep mine straighter than that though for some barres it gets close.

[ronjazz]

i strongly suggest that every player do a little anatomical study of the skeleton and muscle structures of the human body. Our movements are based on the "maps" in our brain that we have developed throughout our lifetimes, and often, we have wrong info as to how the fingers and hands work, as well as the arms and shoulders. Avoiding injury is much easier when you know the "machine".

[smokinguit]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

is it worth mentioning what the chords are just in case anyone is wondering about the inverted triads etc,or should we leave that until the book explains them later.

I Don't think it would hurt. But the key thing for right now is to be able to play each exercise in time and gradually increase the speed.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

Pages 1 to 7.Two things do you guys and girls think we should be playing using all down strokes as i believe that's were the book heads later playing down strokes on the downbeats.The other thing ,is it worth mentioning what the chords are just in case anyone is wondering about the inverted triads etc,or should we leave that until the book explains them later.

I'd say "yes" to downstrokes. As far as chord names, I'd call that "extra credit".

Learning to read these three-note voicings in notation is the challenge here, even if you've worked through single-note or classical reading methods previously. Also, playing some of these voicings without muting the open string in the middle can be a challenge and requires a different technique from classical playing.

With a non-classical nut width, you have to err on the side of touching adjacent non-played strings to let these inner, open notes ring. Of course, this mutes the non-played strings -- and that's a good thing, but, again, different from a traditional classical technique.

[fep]

When I recorded this is occurred to me that some might use this as a play-along. So I recorded it with two tempos, twice at each tempo on the first one. I didn't count out load because I was recording, Leavitt recommends that you count.

Self critique:

- My pinky is flying away from the fretboard, I need to all my fingers close to the fretboard.

- The dynamics aren't as consistent as I'd like.

- It doesn't sound like music, it sounds like an exercise. This kind of exercise might be hard to make it sound like music but one should try.

One observation, is it's hard to play that slow. Kind of like walking but at a pace of one step every three seconds, try it it's hard. You might find it easier at the faster tempo. Another difficulty is knowing the tape is running, we'll all probably get over that the more we record.

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by Billnc

So that bend on the far right picture is okay? I've always tried to keep mine straighter than that though for some barres it gets close.

First, a sincere thanks to fep: You are going way above and beyond the call of duty!

Now about the hand position: In order to achieve a unbent wrist, I angle the head of my guitar higher than you (fep) - about 45 degrees. Also, my thumb is in the center of the neck, but it points more or less towards the head - more directly toward the head in higher positions. Finally - and I'm not sure if this is to far ahead but it relates to Pirate Nigel's pictures above: My wrist bends forwards when doing bar chords. The forward bend seems unavoidable but it is not always the most comfortable. Is that okay?

Thx.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

fep: I did not even notice some of the things you mentioned - like the pinky flying away. Thanks for reminding me (us) to pay attention to our body mechanics. Presumably this will help us develop fluid, easy motions.

What I did notice is how even and clean your picking sounds - not so for yours truly. I don't even hit the correct string sometimes, and other times the attack sounds either heavy handed, or like a near miss, or as though the pick is scraping the string.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

There is a general rule that if you are playing something sloppily, it's better to slow down.

What surprised me is that I find it easier to play the exercises on page 4 at 68 half notes per minute than at 68 quarter notes per minute. When playing at the slower tempo, my left hand seems to forget where to go. Any thoughts on this?

[strumcat]

First of all, thank to fep for taking the trouble to make those videos. People learn best by imitation, and those help a lot.

Now some comments and questions...

What I've been trying to do is sing each note's letter name as I play it. It's harder for me that way, but I think I will learn more in the long run. I can see that I need to have the sight reading of individual notes down absolutely cold if I'm going to have any hope of parsing new chords rapidly. I've put this in the same category as learning your multiplication tables when you're a kid.

It's significantly more difficult for me to play this stuff in time with a metronome, so I don't think I really learn much without using one. Is it better to slow down the metronome to the point where I make almost no mistakes. or set it to push me a little at the cost of some mistakes? When I do make mistakes, is it better to stop and start over or just keep going?

I've been careless about doing alternate up down picking. Should I not do that at this point?

Once you've played an exercise a few times, you sort of learn it by heart, and then it's ruined for practicing sight-reading. Does anyone know of an internet source for lots of very simple music, preferably free and downloadable?

OK, sorry for all the pesky questions. I'll give it a rest now (even though we haven't covered rests yet).

[gingerjazz]

Great questions strumcat,i will attempt to give you my thoughts on those things.I believe you should slow down the metronome until you can play the piece with no ,mistakes and then build up the tempo.This is quite widely accepted as the correct method,its often said if you cannot play it slow you wont play it fast.When i make a mistake i always start over,thats just me though i don't know if this is the accepted practice or not.The book moves on later to playing down strokes on down beats and up strokes on upbeats so i think it is best to play these that way.It would have probably been better if the book had mentioned the picking technique to be used.I dont think these exercises are meant to be reading studies they come later i think these are more about learning the positions,so memorising at this stage is ok i think.I think TLT can point you towards some free resources on the net regarding reading studies,i have the reading studies books that accompany this book.Hope this helps a bit,i am not a music teacher so these are only my own take on things.Peace

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by strumcat

It's significantly more difficult for me to play this stuff in time with a metronome, so I don't think I really learn much without using one. Is it better to slow down the metronome to the point where I make almost no mistakes. or set it to push me a little at the cost of some mistakes? When I do make mistakes, is it better to stop and start over or just keep going?

as ginger says, slow it down, get it right, then you can speed up. some passages this book has had me to 40bpm, which is the slowest my ticker goes. exception is if you are banging yr head off a brick wall, in which case, break it down.

tips for breaking things down (to avoid head-banging)

chunking. *do not* play piece from beginning to end. break it into 4 bar chunks (2 bars, 1 bar, whatever). use postits to hide from view the notes you are not interested in. only once you can play 4 bar chunks correctly, put together into 8 bars, etc

notes and rhythm separate. once through, disregard notes and play rhythm only. clap, or play down strokes on single note. once through, disregard rhythm and play notes only. turn metronome off.

I've been careless about doing alternate up down picking. Should I not do that at this point?

man on video says down strokes only for now.

Once you've played an exercise a few times, you sort of learn it by heart, and then it's ruined for practicing sight-reading. Does anyone know of an internet source for lots of very simple music, preferably free and downloadable?

OK, sorry for all the pesky questions. I'll give it a rest now (even though we haven't covered rests yet).

i first learned guitar-reading from an old teach-yorself recorder book that was lying around. anything simple will do. try this:
Beginner Piano Music for Kids -- Printable Free Sheet Music

try mary had a little lamb, jingle bells, etc. ignore wormies and snakes as they only work on piano. if the bass clef has notes, ignore it.

don't worry too much that you memorize. you still practice reading even when memorized (though, true, not to the same extent). got kids? remember when they're learning to read and they memorise their fav book and read it constantly again and again. there is something and familiarity and comfort that helps - not the constant fear that the next word will be difficult. and then over time it just happens.

[gingerjazz]

Grat advice TLT,especially the post it note idea,also forgot to mention in this internet world of ours,the good old fashioned library is a great resource for borrowing recorder,violin flute etc books to practice sight reading.You also mention that the dvd mentions down strokes for these exercises,he must have forgotten to mention that in the book.Oh well,best be of to the woodshed,i do not want to gat a detention from Fep for not doing my homework.Peace and happy learning.

[smokinguit]

Hi strumcat,

I think if you are at an early beginner stage to sight reading you need to supplement leavitt's method with something like melbay's grade one book. For instance, it has you reading on one string at a time before you play them simultaneously. As you work through the exercises say the note names out loud as you play them. As ten left thumb mentioned, read the rhythms w/o reading the notes. By internalizing the rhythms and knowing the note names by sight can you sight reading fluently. Then and only then, should you think about bumping the bpm level. Also as far as the chords, you need not worry too much about those. Focus on single lines for right now. Get those down cold. You need to do a lot of easy drills first.

Leavitt's book is good for any level, but it must be supplemented with something more basic for absolute beginners to sight reading. Just my 2cents.

[ronjazz]

Once you have the notes down in 1st position, clarinet books are really good for sight-reading material, as the written range is very similar to guitar. While the MM may not mention down-strokes, they are vey clearly indicated graphically above the first notes of most of the exercises. The metronome is a great tool to help you gauge your progress as well; keep a little journal or write in pencil the mm markings on the exercise in the book, and erase and upgrade each increase. You may be surprised at how much progress you're actually making. Don't be too concerned about sight-reading at this point, the second section of Vol. 1 starts getting into that. As Leavitt said, review, review, review. Happy New Year and Best Of Luck to all!

[Help!I'maRock!]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

man on video says down strokes only for now.

this is actually going to be difficult for me. i alternate pick everything. can't help it.

[smokinguit]

I think knowing how to sight read at a basic level is important to get through the first part of this book w/ ease as the book has no tabs. But you can learn the notes on the strings and create your own tabs. That way you can figure out how to play the exercises by continuous practice. Don't let not knowing how to sight read frustrate you too much. Just figure out how it is played and follow along with this thread and the DVD if you have it. Again you can supplement this book with a basic reading book if you want to learn how to do it at this stage in MM. I find David Oak's book on reading for guitarist to be good cause he really break things down.

[Astronomer]

Looks like you guys are off to a great start with this thread! So for this week, we are going up to the Sea to Sea duet?

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock!

this is actually going to be difficult for me. i alternate pick everything. can't help it.

when you say you can't help it...

it is picky, and it does mean slowing down to get to the right string. i can tell you following the book as intended requires down pcikiing on beat, wich is what we're at. can't tell you rationale as i'm not a teacher or a good player.

of course its up to you how much you follow book as intended and how much you customise.

i know i found the picking really difficult on these pages, but the music which follows would be impossible to play without the discipline of down strokes on beats.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by Astronomer

Looks like you guys are off to a great start with this thread! So for this week, we are going up to the Sea to Sea duet?

that's right

[ronjazz]

Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock!

this is actually going to be difficult for me. i alternate pick everything. can't help it.

Of course you can help it; breaking bad habits is part of becoming a good player. i can suggest that you "silent pick" your upstrokes, as this will come in handy later when you're reading dotted rhythms. In other words, downstroke hits the string, upstroke misses the string, just like your foot tapping up and down. In the larger scheme, everybody alternates, because you can't make the next downstroke without an upstroke. You just need to tell your hand what to do.

[fep]

Yea, This is going well. Thanks to the questions and the answers that everyone has been providing.

Only thing I can think of adding, is in my opinion it is best to avoid tab at this point. I believe Leavitt didn't include tab because this book is about teaching you to read. And if you use tab you won't have to memorize the notes. Just my opinion.

Thanks Ron, it's so helpful to have someone like you.

A Question for Ronjazz

After the 1st page a lot of the exercises have chords on the inside strings like F A C or E G C in the first position. There are various ways to play those; 1) with hybrid picking, 2) with a rest strong (landing on the high E string) or 3) muting the high E string with the side of your pinky (this one I don't care for).

Can you give us advice on how Leavitt might instruct one on how to approach this?