Study Group - A Modern Method For Guitar Volume one

[fep]

We have been discussing the book here:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...g-leavitt.html

And that is the place to continue a general discussion of the book.

This poll is to see if folks would be interested in a study group of the book. I'd be willing to head it up and try to keep it moving.

An example of what I'm thinking is what Ten Left Thumbs and I did on post #25 thru #33 at http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...g-leavitt.html.

The study group thread would focus in on a certain number of pages each week.

-Recordings or videos would be really encouraged as that is important for focus and development. For each week and group of pages, the participants would be encouraged to put up at least one recording and/or video. They can choose from any of that weeks material.

-Discussions and analysis and answering questions would also be part of the thread.

-A schedule would be created and followed as we go. Making it sort of like a college class, the participants would have to keep up (actually they wouldn't as the thread will always be out there, but you get what I mean).

I'd hope we could get at least 4 to 'sign up' as active participants. I'm thinking we'd start on Jan 1st.

We'd start at the beginning. For those who have already started the book, reviewing is a good thing and is encouraged by the author. So don't let that stop you from participating.

The speed at which we go would be dependent on the group. At a minimum we should complete the book in a year.

What do you think?

[ten left thumbs]

I'm in. I'm not sure the poll counted my vote, as it told me I had already voted.

I find I get motivation from a group that is hard to maintain when it's just me and the living room and the book.

[leonard_c]

I would be interested but with some trepidation due to inexperience and would probably be a terrible slow-coach!

[whatswisdom]

My tv is broken so I'll sign up. Just voted. Should be fun.

[fep]

Originally Posted by leonard_c

I would be interested but with some trepidation due to inexperience and would probably be a terrible slow-coach!

Might as well give it a try, it's certainly not a competition and we were all just getting started at some point in our guitar playing lives.

[Badge]

I am in. Good idea, thanks. When do we kick off?

[PirateNigel]

Finally joined the forum just to vote and join up for this. I was searching for Leavitt curriculum to guide me through the book and found this forum and thread.

I'm in.

[ten left thumbs]

Good going!

A bit of background for anyone who is interested:

Berklee Press - Catalog - A Modern Method for Guitar: 123 Complete

I have volume 1 only, and it is thick enough for my music stand, I'm glad I didn't get the all-in-one package. I had just a few lessons with a master-teacher, and at the end he suggested I go through this book. Berklee college use it, one volume per year.

This is a good book for anyone who already plays and wants to:

learn to read music
learn the notes on the fretboard
break out of just strumming chords, or running blues scales and licks

Also good for a seasoned player who wants to go back and brush up on skills and put the jigsaw pieces back together again.

It does *not* teach jazz (at least, vol 1 doesn't) but it does teach basic competency at the guitar which is needed for jazz. It is (my opinion only) unsuitable for a total beginner to music and guitar as you quite quickly enter into things that are technically challenging without really giving you time to practice them (maybe it's just me, but I needed quite a few months just to change from D to A).

It does not teach classical guitar. So far everything is with plectrum only.

Notation is treble clef. There is no tab (beyond chord boxes).

It consists of original material. No Mozart, no nursery rhymes. Some quite inspired compositions, also duets - the learner can play both parts, though, obviously not at the same time, maybe the advanced students do that! And, as you would expect, scales and exercises. I feel it is cleverly written to train my fingers in a certain way, so if they want my fingers to approach a chord in a certain way, then they engineer that move somehow and make me do it by following. If I just follow, my fingers will move in a correct way so I don't obsess about technique.

So, anyone looking for a project for the new year, now's the time to get the book.

For recording, I have a zoom H2 and a (free) boxnet file for sharing. For next year I'm hoping to have video too (something under the tree for me), and then you can all see my pretty face!

I would encourage anyone to find a way of recording as you will get a lot more out of the study group that way.

[Dave Montgomery]

This is a great idea. I look forward to being involved.

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

This is a good book for anyone who already plays and wants to: learn to read music learn the notes on the fretboard.

If you can afford it, get the Reading Studies and Melodic Rhythms books. They're designed for study along with Modern Method. Worth their weight in gold and make the Modern Method studies much easier.

[ronjazz]

I studied with Leavitt when he was finishing the second and third volumes, and he would have me take pages home to proofread. I will pop in once in a while, in case there are questions I might be able to answer, based on my lessons with himself. He was a great master of harmony and did arranging for singers, full orchestra and big band charts. The Method was mainly realized when he was a radar guy on the DEW line, stationed in the middle of nowhere along the Arctic circle, so it thoroughness is not a coincidence. It's an excellent method, although Leavitt himself was in favor of adding other methodologies to it, for certain styles, for instance. It's not a jazz method, it's a guitar method for those interested in jazz. It can be useful to fingerstyle players as well.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

First of all: Props and a very big thanks to fep for some outstanding leadership. I only recently joined this forum - even though jazz is my main focus lol - and this forum is a lot more knowledgeable, helpful, and "on point" than most. That said, I voted no because I don't want to make a regular commitment to an online format. But good luck to those that do, and I'll probably be back anyway, like the bad penny you can't get rid of.

Second: Props and a very big thanks to ronjazz: You have no idea how timely your post is for me. This is a bit personal but figures also to be of interest to others studying the Modern Method. Briefly: I took guitar lessons many years back, switched to another instrument, and now switched back. I am studying guitar without a teacher at the moment and trying to lay a solid foundation by revisiting my old Modern Method and Melodic Rhythms books. I've worked a small way through each. I 'm also using the Guitar Fretboard Workbook as a reference and practicing 5 major scale forms as outlined in that book.

So far as I know, these are the same scale patterns as in Modern Method. The only exceptions I make - if they are exceptions - are sometimes stretching my pinky forward where Leavitt would extend the first finger back, or playing with the longer finger on the lower string when there are two successive notes on the same fret. But for playing major scales in position (which is still what I practice most), I use the 5 patterns.

Ever since I read your post from the other thread (below), I've been wondering about how fingerings differ and why Leavitt's would be better for sight-reading and others for jazz. As for the strokes, my teacher taught me to in general keep the pick moving, so I do. Is it easy to either explain how Leavitt's and jazz fingerings and picking differ, or is there a reference you recommend? -- Thx very much for any help you might be able to provide.

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Having studied that method with Leavitt himself, I don't recall him calling for rest-strokes only at all, but both rest and free-strokes, with the idea of getting them all to sound the same, rest and free, down and up. And don't let yourself get bogged down and discouraged over difficult sections; move on but constantly review. Leavitt's fingerings are, as I recall, mainly for use in sight-reading on actual gigs: Bill was always first-call for big shows in the Boston area, both as player and arranger. While his fingerings may not be the most jazz-friendly, they certainly are very practical for those of us who do studio work and pit work.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

If you can afford it, get the Reading Studies and Melodic Rhythms books. They're designed for study along with Modern Method. Worth their weight in gold and make the Modern Method studies much easier.

That's good to know, thanks.

[ronjazz]

I don't know the difference between Leavitt's fingerings and CAGED, although I have to assume they're quite similar. What I found with Leavitt's method was that the fingerings made sense in reading situations, in that, once you learned all 12 fingerings, you rarely had to look at the fingerboard while playing, as the training (with requisite practice) used the 1st and 4th finger stretches to enable you to stay in position. Playing all 12 major scales in one position can be a lifesaver in difficult reading situations, although, again, it may not be that useful for jazz improv. Leavitt taught alternate picking as a good way to play written rhythms as well, where you would keep the pick alternating "silently" through longer notes, much like the foot taps up and down. This is also very useful for sight-reading.

Again, the Leavitt method is not a jazz method, per se. It is a way to master the plectrum-style guitar, and, while called a "Modern Method", it was conceived and written in the late 50s-early 60s, and so is not quite so modern any more. I consider it the most complete method available, but the demands of contemporary jazz call for more contemporary materials for study to be added once you've reached Volume 2 of Leavitt. Bill was a huge Johnny Smith fan, and his chord studies and theory pages reflect that approach very well, if you're interested in "inside", diatonic playing.

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Playing all 12 major scales in one position can be a lifesaver in difficult reading situations.

A critical skill to have in your gigbag, IMHO. Check out the chart posted on another thread by bako. It gives you fingerings for all 12 major scales in one position. Print it, put it on your stand and don't take it down until you can play it every which way. You'll be glad when you see how much it helps with reading the Leavitt studies. Fingering issues will become irrelevant.

[fep]

Cool, this is really taking off. And lots of good comments. And Ronjazz, thanks for your contribution... a direct lineage from the source, cool.

Originally Posted by Badge

I am in. Good idea, thanks. When do we kick off?

I'm thinking I'll start the new thread and the study group on Jan 1st as perhaps some are busy due to the holidays and/or vacations.

In the first week let's try the 1st 10 pages through One Two Three Four (Duet). We'll get a feel for how many pages to take on each week from there.

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Good going!
For recording, I have a zoom H2 and a (free) boxnet file for sharing. For next year I'm hoping to have video too (something under the tree for me), and then you can all see my pretty face!

I would encourage anyone to find a way of recording as you will get a lot more out of the study group that way.

And you get a very nice quality sound. If you get a webcam for about $20 you could sync the sound from the H2 to the video, i.e. using the H2 for sound and the webcam for video only. That would be good quality.

I record by plugging an amp modeler directly into the computer (for acoustic I can plug a mic directly into the computer). So perhaps many of you might already have a mic or an amp modeler...

I have a logitech webcam attached to my pc for video, I select external source for sound thereby not using the cheapo mic on the video camera. The camera was about $20.

And I agree with TTL, I've found recording really helps me evaluate my progress and motivates and focuses my practice.

[fumblefingers]

i work around Leavitt's fingerings when he calls for stretches in the lower positions (Book One, Section Two). this causes me to shift one position up or down. no big deal. just watch your favorite master play - they move constantly.

i am happy to help anyone with the alternate fingerings when they get to section two.

the Leavitt fingerings that do NOT involve shifts are exactly the same as 2 of the 5 CAGED fingerings.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Thanks very much guys. I found the bako chart that whatiswisdom mentioned - a downloadable pdf file which is located here. After reading the comments from ronjazz, whatiswisdom, and fumblefingers in posts 14, 15, and 17, I decided to compare the 12 scales in one position from bako's chart with the five scales allowing a position shift. Let me say upfront that I am not trying to second guess these members, who know far more than me. I am trying to listen and learn from them. That said …

I really do not understand bako's chart. There are five frets, so is it one position or two? If it is one position, then does the index finger go where the F is in the F major scale, or does the index finger go where F# is? I can see that in addition to facilitating sight reading as ronjazz mentioned, placing the index finger where the F goes would allow the same patterns to be used even "down to the nut" - something which could be very important.

For reference, here is a chart I made up showing the five patterns from the Barrett Tagliarino book that I referenced in post #12. Even for people who will learn the 12 scales, there may be some value in a chart with these five common patterns. You read them in a "circular" fashion starting with any pattern: 41, 54, 52, 64, 62, 41, ... When I practice them, I pick a key and a pattern to start with, and then play the patterns one after the other up the neck as far as possible, then I skip down to as near the nut as possible and work back up to the starting point. (These are the patterns I practice almost daily, but not the only ones.):



And here is the comparison of the five scales with shifts and the 12 scales (as well as I understand them):




I don't doubt for a second that knowing the 12 patterns cold is a huge skill. OTOH the 5 scales seem to give you a lot of mileage, except perhaps in the 1st position - which may be a critical item.

But to repeat: I am not trying to second guess these knowledgeable members; I just want to learn from them. Nor am I trying to gum up the works of this thread. But working through all of the Modern Method is a big commitment, and I'm just trying to figure out how to best prioritize my practice time while being reasonably sure to leave no stone unturned. So I hope others will find this post helpfully thought provoking and not a distraction.


... And as a somewhat ironic aside: Even though I like a bit of outside playing too, Johnny Smith happens to be my favorite guitarist.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

Thanks very much guys. I found the bako chart that whatiswisdom mentioned - a downloadable pdf file which is located here.

I'm also happy to learn, but it all seems a bit irrelevant as there is no way I could stretch that.

I'm not sure there is much substitute for learning the notes, learning the key signatures and then playing the right bleedin' note. The patterns are a short cut, but they only take you so far.

[gingerjazz]

There is a great video on Jake Hanlons Web site,that may be of interest to anyone who is confused about the 12 scales in one position method.To quote Jake himself you have access to the entire musical universe anywhere on the fretboard without moving position.To me this was made for bop,where the chords and keys are changing fast.I have only started to explore this system quite recently but believe the extra effort will reap greater rewards.I also apply my interval colour code to these shapes which i have mentioned in the theory thread.Peace.

[Norman931]

I once had a copy of the combined edition. The small music and fuzzy printing made it hard for a near-sighted person like myself. The size of the book also made it awkward on the music stand. I didn't get very far into it. That said, I just ordered a copy of Volume 1, and will give it another go. I am intrigued by the 12 fingerings. I don't know if I will keep up with the group, but we'll see!

[the*doctor]

I'm in, this will be great!

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

I'm just trying to figure out how to best prioritize my practice time while being reasonably sure to leave no stone unturned.

Put chart on music stand.
Exercise: Major Scale. Cycle of 4ths.
Begin with root of F major 1st fret - (1 on 6); play the F major scale to the "A" 5th fret (4 on 1), go back down and finish on the root where you began.
Then continue by playing root of Bb major 1st fret (1 on 5) and also go to the "A" 5th fret (4 on 1); go back down to the lowest note in key's range "F" and back up to finish on the root Bb.
Then root of Eb 1st fret (1 on 4), this time to the "Ab", 4th fret (4 on 1); back down to the lowest in that key's range (again "F") and back up to finish on the root Eb.
Give these 3 keys a try and let us know how you do. The idea is to cover all the available notes in each major scale within the 5-fret range (ascending/descending).
Saying the name of each note (out loud) as you play it is a very effective way to learn the keys and the fingerboard.
Best to get it together in first position if you can--then the higher positions are easier....

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Thank you very much whatiswisdom. I know your time is valuable, but to give you an example of what is perplexing me about this chart:

For the key of F - the first one you mentioned - I could play the whole sequence in 2nd position by stretching for the low F, low Bb, and high F. Likewise, I could play the whole key of Ab in 1st position, stretching only for the middle G. Is that okay? (It is not "one position" as I understand the term, and that is what is confusing me.)

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

There is a great video on Jake Hanlons Web site,that may be of interest to anyone who is confused about the 12 scales in one position method. ... To quote Jake himself you have access to the entire musical universe anywhere on the fretboard without moving position. ...

Thanks. I just snagged the pdf of Jake Hanlon's college course lesson plan, if that is what you mean (didn't see anything else). I get it that a lot of capable players say you need to play all the keys in the same place on the neck. I also see some other patterns besides the 5 patterns I showed above - patterns consistent with the pdf that bako posted and with what I think whatiswisdom is saying. I'm not sure if that means "one position" or two, as I understand the term "position". Maybe that is my problem - that I don't understand the term "position" - or maybe I just need to start stretching like a son-of-a-gun (or both lol).

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

For the key of F - the first one you mentioned - I could play the whole sequence in 2nd position by stretching for the low F, low Bb, and high F.

Bottom line is you have a five-fret range. For F, Bb, Eb, the 1st finger extends down to the first fret to grab the root; 4th finger extends up to the fifth fret where necessary "extension" is the term favored by Aaron Shearer, which I like. Most keys require extensions. In the first five-fret position/range, keys that require no extensions are G major and D major (maybe B major too) I'll check when I get to my guitar (gotta gig later so may be back to you tomorrow). Meanwhile I'm sure some more will respond and help you more...

[gingerjazz]

Highspeed, i just checked out Jakes site and you need to go to his video section,or you could try you tube,the video is called twelve keys in one position or something like that.Let me kow if you still dont find it as it is worth watching.Also i think i understand your confusion with regard to position.In the five position or caged shapes you showed a position tends to be thought of as four frets.With this system a position actually covers a six fret span,hence giving you access to every note in the chromatic scale,hopefully you will see Jakes video which demonstrates the whole thing very well indeed,Jake is a great educator and a brilliant musician(A cheque or cash is fine Jake)cheers and peace.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Thanks gingerjazz and also whatiswisdom. I found the Jake Hanlon vide, and I will watch it tonight. Here it is ...

YouTube Video

[gingerjazz]

Your very welcome ,please let us know what you think after watching it.There is a lot of work in that video alone,remember all you have to do is flat the thirds of each scale and you have melodic minor.This is actually easier to see visually with this system i find.Good luck.

[strumcat]

OK, I'm gonna try this. God help us. If it takes me too long to get up to speed on reading, I'll drop out rather than slow down the group. Just bought Leavitt Vol 1 (book only) at Baxter/Northrup and will crack it soon as I get home. This is a great idea, Fep and TLT. Thanks!