Study Group - A Modern Method For Guitar Volume one

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

The Classical Studies are not simplified versions, just the ones appropriate to the plectrum technique. Some of the studies in the first few pages may be shorter than the originals, but Leavitt did not edit any notes out. These are studies that benefit string-skipping, dynamics and general musicality, and should be approached with a high regard for tone quality and accuracy in the rhythms. This is the clear influence of Johnny Smith, whom Bill regarded very highly.

Thanks very much ronjazz. I went back and corrected my earlier post based on your comments.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by jtj314

Hello everybody! I'm new to the site and I was wondering if you had room for another person in the study group? It's kind of funny that I found this, because I have owned the Complete 123 version of MMG for over a year now, but never made it past page 10. (not due to difficulty, I'm just not good with practice routines, lol). Just last week I decided that my New Year's resolution is to make it through volume 1. But I knew I would need some help, so in google i searched for a practice plan for MMG and one of the links led me here! An actual Study Group formed to begin working through volume 1 after the 1st of January! I guess if one looks hard enough, he or she will eventually find what they're looking for.

I've been playing for 12 years, and I like to think that I'm pretty good but nobody is ever as good as they want to be. But I've never had a lesson, and everything i know was learned from TAB format. And I've decided to separate myself from the crutch of tablature and actually become a musician. My ultimate goal is to be a session guitarist. One of the main skills a session player needs to possess is sight reading. This book will not only teach one how to sight read, it has elements of music theory in the first volume that you just won't find in the whole Mel Bay series (according to certain reviews).

welcome, and hi! jump in, the waters lovely.

Anyways, I would love to be part of this group, and I cannot wait to get started!

By the way, does anyone have the dvd-rom that corresponds with volume 1?

yep.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

.Also it might be nice to hear what people were hoping to get out of this project.

i want to gain good knowledge of teh guitar and basic competency and control playing it. some things i can already do (read music, theory inc some jazz theory, finger control and strength, ear ok) - not wishing to boast, but i already have these skills. so to have this and to be so hampered at the guitar just seems silly.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by jtj314

Hello everybody! I'm new to the site and I was wondering if you had room for another person in the study group? It's kind of funny that I found this, because I have owned the Complete 123 version of MMG for over a year now, but never made it past page 10. (not due to difficulty, I'm just not good with practice routines, lol). Just last week I decided that my New Year's resolution is to make it through volume 1. But I knew I would need some help, so in google i searched for a practice plan for MMG and one of the links led me here! An actual Study Group formed to begin working through volume 1 after the 1st of January! I guess if one looks hard enough, he or she will eventually find what they're looking for.

I've been playing for 12 years, and I like to think that I'm pretty good but nobody is ever as good as they want to be. But I've never had a lesson, and everything i know was learned from TAB format. And I've decided to separate myself from the crutch of tablature and actually become a musician. My ultimate goal is to be a session guitarist. One of the main skills a session player needs to possess is sight reading. This book will not only teach one how to sight read, it has elements of music theory in the first volume that you just won't find in the whole Mel Bay series (according to certain reviews).

Anyways, I would love to be part of this group, and I cannot wait to get started!

By the way, does anyone have the dvd-rom that corresponds with volume 1?

Welcome. Of course you may join in, Kudos for taking that next step.

Your comment on reading, as related to being a musician is something I personally do not agree with. Will you be a better reader able to do session work? Sure, but like knowing how to read words, it is a way of being able to communicate ideas to the mass, but has no impact on an astute listener and conversationalist when speaking. Reading music, tab etc.. is just another way to communicate. What you say with this knowledge is the crux of being a real musician, IMO. Sorry to sidetrack this awesome endeavor.

With that being said, welcome to the group. I hope you have as much fun as I hope to.

[strumcat]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

lol that makes me feel good beforee we even start!

Hee hee... well, just take care of the hands and don't overdo it. A month or two ago I practiced a certain position too much and overstressed the first joint of the first finger of my left hand. (I was playing an 'A' cowboy chord with one finger while stretching to the fifth fret with my pinky over the E and B strings, and bending the G string for a faux-pedalsteel sound. There's a lot of other bluesy and countryish stuff you can do by playing A that way.)

Anyway, it feels better now and I hope yours does soon, too.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by strumcat

Hee hee... well, just take care of the hands and don't overdo it. A month or two ago I practiced a certain position too much and overstressed the first joint of the first finger of my left hand. (I was playing an 'A' cowboy chord with one finger while stretching to the fifth fret with my pinky over the E and B strings, and bending the G string for a faux-pedalsteel sound. There's a lot of other bluesy and countryish stuff you can do by playing A that way.)

Anyway, it feels better now and I hope yours does soon, too.

wow. hurts my heads just to think about that. ive always felt that the stretches and sustained strenght needed for my lh protect it. by contrast my rh is asked to do similar repetitive, but not arduous, movements for two instruments and typing. last time this happened i came across a page by mark knopfler - who had same problem rh and used qigong balls as part of healing and strenghthening - so i just ordered some. need to bring some balance to rh.

[fep]

I should mention, we just started. Here's the thread

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...tml#post191392

[gingerjazz]

Hey,thats not fair Fep its not even midnight here in England,you get a head start.Right im off to get started early just for that.

[ronjazz]

Reading music is not really "just another way to communicate", it is by far the best way to communicate with other musicians, if you're, in fact, serious about being a high-level musician. It also makes available a world of opportunities and repertoire. Unless one is a hobbyist or one possesses the gifts of Wes or Django, it's unwise to ignore the ability to read music.

I have yet to meet a single musician who regrets being able to read notation.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I haven't really heard anyone mention this. So, I'll throw it out there. I personally believe you need some real music reading experience to be able to tackle this book. If you can't somewhat read through most of Mel Bay's Modern Guitar Method, for example, I'd work through something at that much gentler pace first (not that it's super easy if you don't already read).

I think it's important to know that if you don't have a lot of experience reading music that you don't suck just because Leavitt's "too much, too soon". After all, it was originally written as a college textbook.

If you've laid off reading music for a while, something like Mel Bay may be good for review while studying the Leavitt book a few pages at a time. If you're completely new to reading music seriously, don't be frustrated if Leavitt's too hard. "Graduate" to it after working through something at a more basic level or supplement Mel Bay while working through it, if you're really ambitious.

Most beginner books are paced more slowly and progress more gradually. You need more repetitions, with small note groupings,when starting out. Learning to read 8 different notes, on 4 different strings right off the bat is really a lot to take in.

Sorry if I'm being a little too "real" with this. Just my $.02.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Reading music is not really "just another way to communicate", it is by far the best way to communicate with other musicians, if you're, in fact, serious about being a high-level musician. It also makes available a world of opportunities and repertoire. Unless one is a hobbyist or one possesses the gifts of Wes or Django, it's unwise to ignore the ability to read music.

I have yet to meet a single musician who regrets being able to read notation.

Wow, struck a sour note there, Huh Ron?

I can't recall implying anything about Ignoring reading, or your fine reading tab don't sweat it, or better yet just play by ear, you'll be fine, after all Wes did it.

I know great readers who can't play their way out of a paper bag without the music in front of them, and can't improvise worth a darn. I know great players who read at a very basic level, and can improvise their butt off and apply everything they have learned, regardless of how they cam by that information. The point was not about, should one read or not read. The point was, to be a real musician, one needs to be able to interpret and apply what they have learned in a musical way, whether it was learned by reading, tab, by ear or came to them in a dream in a Turkish bath. That is what being a real musician means to me.

[gingerjazz]

Modern method,associated studys.Just thought i would see if all the people involved would like to say what other kinds of practice they are doing alongside the leavitt studies.I am also doing ear training,and of course learning tunes,i also study quite a bit of theory which i love because i am a bookworm.Also i have an improvisation section to my practice routine.I think ive got most things covered,but am always open to suggestions.I would also like to say that i believe with a project such as this the journey is the destination.Peace.

[ronjazz]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Wow, struck a sour note there, Huh Ron?

I can't recall implying anything about Ignoring reading, or your fine reading tab don't sweat it, or better yet just play by ear, you'll be fine, after all Wes did it.

I know great readers who can't play their way out of a paper bag without the music in front of them, and can't improvise worth a darn. I know great players who read at a very basic level, and can improvise their butt off and apply everything they have learned, regardless of how they cam by that information. The point was not about, should one read or not read. The point was, to be a real musician, one needs to be able to interpret and apply what they have learned in a musical way, whether it was learned by reading, tab, by ear or came to them in a dream in a Turkish bath. That is what being a real musician means to me.

That's fine for you, Matt, but that kind of thinking is all too common in the guitar world. It also implies a kind of isolationism, and it does indeed imply all the things you said it doesn't. The guitar has had a bad reputation for decades, especially among jazz musicians, and I, as a former teacher at New England Conservatory, MIT and Berklee, must always make sure that newbies are not misled by the casual dismissal of the essential language of music. Your definition is all well and good, but incomplete at best. And your knee-jerk response tells me that the sour note belongs to you. It's funny how often I hear how unimportant reading is from guitarists, and how seldom I hear it from players of other instruments. It also might explain why so many guitar holders make such horrible noise and insultingly simple-minded "music".

Again, your opinion is your own to hold, but on a thread about the Modern Method For Guitar, denigrating reading seems counter-productive.

[jtj314]

I feel somewhat responsible for this discussion turning into a tab vs. notation debate. Even though tab is a great tool for speeding up the process of learning songs, and techniques, it can be very dangerous to a player's overall musical knowledge. In my own learning experience, I spent five years playing songs and improvising solos without even knowing the names of one solitary note or chord i was playing. In my head, I thought of notes not as C#, E, Fb, etc but as "5th string 4th fret, 1st string zero, etc." There came a day when I was in a situation where I was playing with a group of people, and one guy called out "this next song is going to be a 1, 4, 5 progression in the key of A" and I did not know what in the heck he just said! It was at that moment that I realized that I needed to reevaluate my knowledge of guitar. I bought a couple of books explaining theory in relation to the fretboard, and it not only increased my knowledge musically, but also technically. But now I'm at this point where my life is crossing paths with your lives here in this discussion. Most of us here see a need in learning to read notation, and have committed ourselves to work together and help eachother use this method which is regarded in most circles as the absolute best guitar method ever written! We're all here to reach a common goal. To reach the top of the Sight-reading mountain, and also learn some theory and techniques along the way. We all strive to be better guitarists, so let us not argue about the little things such as tab vs notation, but lets all grab volume one of MMG, turn to page one, and begin the very task we've committed to accomplish this year. This is a new day, and a new year! So lets make it the best year of our lives, and join the ranks of those who made it through the 'Berklee Method'

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

That's fine for you, Matt, but that kind of thinking is all too common in the guitar world. It also implies a kind of isolationism, and it does indeed imply all the things you said it doesn't. The guitar has had a bad reputation for decades, especially among jazz musicians, and I, as a former teacher at New England Conservatory, MIT and Berklee, must always make sure that newbies are not misled by the casual dismissal of the essential language of music. Your definition is all well and good, but incomplete at best. And your knee-jerk response tells me that the sour note belongs to you. It's funny how often I hear how unimportant reading is from guitarists, and how seldom I hear it from players of other instruments. It also might explain why so many guitar holders make such horrible noise and insultingly simple-minded "music".

Again, your opinion is your own to hold, but on a thread about the Modern Method For Guitar, denigrating reading seems counter-productive.

Hi Ron, my name is Britt not Matt. Your defensive tone and the insistence of putting words into my mouth can not silence or intimidate me into not stating a point trying help someone become aware of an insight. I need not name drop or wear my pedigree on my sleeve as you do. You of all people should realize that if reading was all there was, we would all be top notch musicians.

But I do thank you for making my point clearer. You just reinforced my assessment with your misinterpretation. Case in point, you can read but you totally missed the gist of my statement, leading you into pointless action. As I stated earlier, where one gets their information is meaningless if they do not know how to interrupt and apply it in a meaningful way, hence becoming a better musician. I also never once down played the importance of reading. You should have been aware of my intentions and offered the benefit of the doubt, not a condescending brush off accompanied by your pedigree. So please, next time rather than come in with guns blazing, dig a little deeper into the OP intent, they just might have a good point.

I shall offer the olive branch to you. If you read any of my posts you will realize your assessment of me is inaccurate.

Peace.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by jtj314

I feel somewhat responsible for this discussion turning into a tab vs. notation debate. Even though tab is a great tool for speeding up the process of learning songs, and techniques, it can be very dangerous to a player's overall musical knowledge. In my own learning experience, I spent five years playing songs and improvising solos without even knowing the names of one solitary note or chord i was playing. In my head, I thought of notes not as C#, E, Fb, etc but as "5th string 4th fret, 1st string zero, etc." There came a day when I was in a situation where I was playing with a group of people, and one guy called out "this next song is going to be a 1, 4, 5 progression in the key of A" and I did not know what in the heck he just said! It was at that moment that I realized that I needed to reevaluate my knowledge of guitar. I bought a couple of books explaining theory in relation to the fretboard, and it not only increased my knowledge musically, but also technically. But now I'm at this point where my life is crossing paths with your lives here in this discussion. Most of us here see a need in learning to read notation, and have committed ourselves to work together and help eachother use this method which is regarded in most circles as the absolute best guitar method ever written! We're all here to reach a common goal. To reach the top of the Sight-reading mountain, and also learn some theory and techniques along the way. We all strive to be better guitarists, so let us not argue about the little things such as tab vs notation, but lets all grab volume one of MMG, turn to page one, and begin the very task we've committed to accomplish this year. This is a new day, and a new year! So lets make it the best year of our lives, and join the ranks of those who made it through the 'Berklee Method'

Your ambitions are well founded and absolutely correct. I was never comparing tab to reading. I was stating that understanding the information we ingest, regardless of where it came from, and applying it in a musical way is what will lead us to be better musicians.

Reading is a necessary skill. But it, in and of itself will not make you a better musician without the aforementioned skills. I wish you luck sir. It sounds like you are on a good path of enlightenment. Keep at the theory, it will pay off more than you can imagine.

[oldskoolchop]

just wanted to post that i got the book on amazon for kindle real cheap. the font is a little small on my kindle but i read it on my laptop and it is bigger print than even in a book. it was like 7 or 8 $.

Time to start. I believe at first what will be hard for me is to slow down and learn the exercise as they are intended to be, using sight reading. I have played for years but cannot read. I have a tendency to stumble through an exercise and then rely on ear instead of eye from then on out.

[va3ux]

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Wonderful! Guitars I've been playing are between 25-26", so a shorter neck would make some things more possible.

If you have a guitar with a 25.5" scale (Fender Strat/Tele/Jazzmaster or Gibson L5 style), pretend that the 2nd fret is actually the first fret and that the first fret is the nut (or put a capo at the 1st fret), and you'll see what a neck with a roughly 24.5" scale is like. Move all that up one more fret and you'll see what a Byrdland (23.5") scale is like (~roughly~). The Fender Mustang, Duosonic and Jaguar all have 24" scale lengths. (Let me add that despite the 'image' those guitars have, they are VERY comfortable to hold and play. Joe Pass played a Mustang on his Synanon recordings; Johnny Winter recorded his entire first album in 1969 with a Mustang).

The difference between the usual 'Fender scale' (25.5") and the 'Gibson scale' (24.75") is only 3/4" and that is spread out over the entire string length - from nut to bridge. So the difference in fret spacing isn't all that much. But it is definitely noticeable if you're fingering a chord that spans frets 1 -4, or perhaps 2 - 6.

Sorry for the digression folks.

[ten left thumbs]

thanks. I'm broke just now, but have filed this away. mebbe one day.

[strumcat]

Originally Posted by oldskoolchop

Time to start. I believe at first what will be hard for me is to slow down and learn the exercise as they are intended to be, using sight reading. I have played for years but cannot read.

You're exactly where I'm at. Using Leavitt, I find that I am learning rudimentary sight-reading with difficulty. For me, using a metronome makes all the difference. It forces me to really learn instantaneous recognition of each note on the staff as I play it. I turn the metronome down absurdly slow if I need to. I try to consciously absorb the look of each note's position. At first I kept blanking on notes, even though I knew what they were if I just thought for half a second. But with persistance and repetition it has started to improve. The notes are like letters of the alphabet, and the chords are like words.

I feel that musical illiteracy has cut me off from a whole wealth of music, musical ideas, and culture. The only chance I have of enjoying it is to start working through my 'abc's now. And so that's what I'm doing, and this study group is a great way to do it.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by strumcat

I feel that musical illiteracy has cut me off from a whole wealth of music, musical ideas, and culture. The only chance I have of enjoying it is to start working through my 'abc's now. And so that's what I'm doing, and this study group is a great way to do it.

Just don't forget about theory and application. Knowing how to use these words is key to having intelligent discussions.

I am glad the group is helping you. Best of luck.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by oldskoolchop

... I believe at first what will be hard for me is to slow down and learn the exercise as they are intended to be, using sight reading. I have played for years but cannot read. I have a tendency to stumble through an exercise and then rely on ear instead of eye from then on out.

Originally Posted by strumcat

You're exactly where I'm at. Using Leavitt, I find that I am learning rudimentary sight-reading with difficulty. For me, using a metronome makes all the difference. It forces me to really learn instantaneous recognition of each note on the staff as I play it. I turn the metronome down absurdly slow if I need to. I try to consciously absorb the look of each note's position. At first I kept blanking on notes, even though I knew what they were if I just thought for half a second. But with persistance and repetition it has started to improve. The notes are like letters of the alphabet, and the chords are like words.

I feel that musical illiteracy has cut me off from a whole wealth of music, musical ideas, and culture. The only chance I have of enjoying it is to start working through my 'abc's now. And so that's what I'm doing, and this study group is a great way to do it.

There is no question that musically literacy opens many artistic doors, including to jazz players - and that is not even considering the additional playing opportunities that only readers have.

One thing about the exercises, and how memory relates to practicing them: I do not attempt to memorize the exercises, since reading skill develops gradually as the result of repeated reading. Nor do I worry if I happen to remember notes. I do use memory when diagnosing problems so that I can look at one hand or the other and thereby more easily detect and correct what is causing me difficulty. Of course, the ultimate goal is to be free of looking at ones hands, but the reason for judiciously looking at the hands to to keep from practicing and thereby assimilating bad habits. Typically, I am playing small fragments when I play from memory, since it is easier to reduce a problem to manageable, correctable parts when the fragments are small.