Chord Tone Madness

[Consul]

Hello guys, I've been working on learning my majors all over the neck note-by-note one string at a time so I can retain a better grasp of the fretboard and given chordtones. So far I have 3 scales down and I've been soloing with some backing tracks on youtube, but so far I've noticed that I'm doing a lot of horizontal movement on 1 or 2 strings. This question probably has an obvious answer but, is there any way to expand my ideas to more strings? I've tried mixing position and horizontal playing but that just ends up confusing me because I see the chord tones better if I'm playing horizontally. Is this just a situation where I should mix it up even if I get confused?

[brwnhornet59]

Playing off of one or two strings is just 1 piece of the puzzle. If you really want to learn the neck then you have to do just that. Learn the major scale in all of its positions and modes off of the low E string. Start with G and play it vertically in a block form to start. Learn each mode of G off of the low E string until you get to the octave on the 15th fret. Then learn G in all of its positions off of the A string, etc.... There are many combinations of fingering that will keep you busy for a long time. In the end you want to be able to play in all 12 keys.

So YES, mix it up. Enjoy your journey.

BTW, Welcome to the forums!

[ottocat]

I've been messing with triads . I heard the term triad pairs .
Had a discussion on another forum .
For simplicity sake I taught myself this approach by taking a static G7 chord , G mixolydian. I then played every other note in the scale in groups of three. I,3,5 -2,4,6-etc on up the scale .
The question I had was what makes a pair ?
All I gathered is adjacent to the chord tones are scale degrees a triad can be built from . Nothing hard and fast . It's a matter of some triads cause tension others release .
Triads can be built off the tritone also.
A scale has two chords 1,3,5,7, or 2,4,6,8,
2,4,6,8,can be classified as 9,11,13 plus octave of the 1.
Am I missing something in reference to triad pairs?
Also there is a significant relationship between the 4 chord and one chord I haven't totally grasped yet Ionian-Lydian
The Lydian mode the way it lays on the guitar is contained in the Phrygian mode so I never really think Lydian . What am I missing......
the raised 4 sound ?

[ottocat]

Sorry , for the out of sequence reply .The computer wouldn't post my response to the above question.
It told me ask a question so I made a new thread.
Tried to post it ,it wouldn't.
Third time I logged in ,the computer spirits posted my new thread here.
We'll see if it posts this apology .
OTTO

[ottocat]

I'm somewhat computer illiterate , it's kicking my tail.
posting and un posting and I don't know why .
Sorry

[brwnhornet59]

A scale gives you more than 2 chords, though overall two distinct "Super" tonalities are present. When you think that a iii-7 or a vi-7 chord can sub for the IM7 chord, the IV M7 or the vii-b5 can sub for the ii-7. The ii-7 and the vi-7 can sub for the IV M7 and the IV M7#11 and the vii7b5 can sub for the V7. Also the I M7 and the IV M7 can sub for the vi-7.

But that is not triad pairing. Triad pairing is just that, pairing two different triads to imply an enhanced tonality. As you stated you can triad pair with tritones as well. You can also triad pair by staring on the 3rd of each triad, omitting the root and work with 3,5,7 or 3,5,6 of each chord. There are lot's of cool ways that get pretty far down the rabbit hole.

You can do it with MM and HM as well.

Matt Warnock's site has some cool examples on the subject. Check it out.

John Patitucci has had some Masters class's on the subject as well. i have seen excerpts floating around the web.

[ottocat]

I'll have to really analyze this from what you say I -iii -vi are subs
ii-vi are subs therefore I and ii are also subs .
If ii-vi sub for IV then I and IV are subs .
I'm not sure of the spelling of a IVM7#11 chord .Drop the 5th and spell it FAB(#11) E in the key of C ? .
Logic is telling me I can sub anything chord wise to anything as long as I' know how it's going to sound first . As in controlling dissonances and consonance .So again I'm saying 2 chords either a chord tone or extention .
Or the combination of the 4,6,8 triad or the 5,7,9. 7,9,11,comes to mind also.
Depends on what the bass player is doing what you name it I guess.

[brwnhornet59]

Look at it this way. When you sub an E-7 for a CM7, look at the notes of E-7 and what you get is a rootless C M9. If you sub A-7 for CM7 and look you have a C6. Make sense?

Play this: D-7 G7 CM7

Now sub everything off of the 3rd of each chord.

FM7 B-7b5 E-7

Nice huh? If you really need to hear the parent chord throw the root on the bottom until you hear it. If you are playing with a Bass player or keyboardist, they will cover the bottom, you are playing off of the 3rd and staying out of everyone's way.

Now sub off of the 6th on the ii and I chords. With the Dom chord you sub off of it's b7 and lower the 5th of the lydian chord to the #4.


B-7b5 FM7#11 A-7

Now you have used all of these subs to play a ii V I

[ottocat]

Thank you I'm working on it. I'm getting there.
More and more I'm finding that periodically I sound like a real be-bop guitar player.
Dig that "crazy" sound .

[brwnhornet59]

Remember, these ideas apply to soloing over a ii V I as well. If you want a M9 sound over a CM7, play a E-7 arp.If you want a M9/13 sound play E- pent. Also notice that the E-7 arp has the same notes as playing a G triad add 6 arp. If you want a 6/9 sound play A-pent. Remember A-pent is the same as C M pent which is M 6/9. If you just want the 6 sound play a A-7 arp.

I use FM7#11 arps over G9 all the time. B-7b5 arps sound great over it as well. D-7 arps works great over G9 as well, notice it has the 11th in it, a great choice for G9sus.
Notice the the notes in D- pent are the same as the notes in an F triad add 6 and will work over G9. Lots of ornaments arising.

You can also throw a D- triad add 6 arp into the mix. It is the 1st inversion of B-7b5. Everything is so closely related.

[ottocat]

So I am discovering.Pat Martino says everything is a Aug or dim chord.Can't wrap my mind around that ......yet.
Music is a continuing process of simplification for me.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by ottocat

So I am discovering.Pat Martino says everything is a Aug or dim chord.Can't wrap my mind around that ......yet.
Music is a continuing process of simplification for me.

I thought he said it's all minor scales.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I thought he said it's all minor scales.

LOL, He Did!!!

Funny you said that, I was literally on the phone talking with a good friend/pianist in Pa about Pat and was telling him that he quantified EVERYTHING into minor when you wrote this. Too funny!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

It's like Pat Martino and I are vibrating to the same crystal!

[brwnhornet59]

Damn dude. The Palantiri, (The seeing orbs from The Lord Of The Rings), must have been the Sires of your prescient crystals. Unless you are talking about some other KIND of crystal!

[ottocat]

I can't figure out how to copy the particular link but,
If you're interested Google Pat Martino's chord family method .
It was suggested to me by a fellow player . I used Google
Pat Martino diminished and augmented .It sent me to PM chord families part 1 and 2 .This method I've read but, haven't tried to implement .....yet.

[brwnhornet59]

Big Daddy is teasing you somewhat, although Pat is playing over aug and dim, he uses his minor scale approach to do it. Pat has said he looks at everything as minor.

[ottocat]

Why? Is the obvious question?
In my limited understanding of harmony.I appears to me that no matter where you start in the cycle ,You are in the cycle , if you know the cycle .