still dont get comping

[nomadpenguin]

what chords am i supposed to substitute? what rhythms should i play? when is it okay to play a melodic line? i just dont get it

[cosmic gumbo]

You have to listen to it before you can play it.

[Bill C]

Barry Galbraith's "Guitar Comping" book may help.

[FatJeff]

+1 on the Barry Galbraith book. Also check out Fareed Haque's Comping Survival Guide (computer DVD available from TueFire). Jazz Guitar Lessons - Jazz Comping Survival Guide - Fareed Haque

And as Cosmic said, listen to great compers, especially pianists. Red Garland and Bill Evans come to mind.

[AmundLauritzen]

I have the TrueFire course by Fareed. It is good, but he doesn't go much beyond using tritone dyads in the blues. If you're looking for more colorful applications, then look elsewhere.
However, if you aren't familiar with dyad comping then I absolutely recommend it. It is a strategy that is particularly useful when comping with a pianist, and it will work in almost every situation. But as said, it can sound a bit bland and thin. It encompasses the very basic sound of the chord so that the pianist can do his extensions and alterations.

Steve Khan has a pretty good book that covers dyads, closed voicings, quartals and more. It is called "Contemporary Chord Khancepts". I've gotten a lot out of that one and I am yet to find something that is more comprehensive. Chord Chemistry is good, but it is overwhelming. I know Vic Juris has a book that's gotten a lot of praise. His harmonic concepts are really colorful so I'd guess his book is worth a look. Haven't purchased it yet, but its on my list.

In general, the most important thing is to stay out of the bassists way and listen to what register the soloist is playing in to avoid clashing with him.
Also listen to when the soloist is playing long runs. Thats when you want to comp sparsely. When he is playing less, you'll be filling in the cracks with chords. In regards to dynamics, you'd maybe choose bigger chords when the soloist builds tension as opposed to smaller chords when he is not playing as intense. But there is no rule to that, you just have to listen and try your best to support him as good as you can.

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen

I have the TrueFire course by Fareed. It is good, but he doesn't go much beyond using tritone dyads in the blues. If you're looking for more colorful applications, then look elsewhere.
However, if you aren't familiar with dyad comping then I absolutely recommend it. It is a strategy that is particularly useful when comping with a pianist, and it will work in almost every situation. But as said, it can sound a bit bland and thin. It encompasses the very basic sound of the chord so that the pianist can do his extensions and alterations.

Actually, Fareed does go into adding simple extensions like the 9th and 13th, and I find these extended voicings to be gold when it comes to comping the blues. He also touches on extending the dyad concept to standards (utilizing ii-Vs). I took the time to adapt the blues dyad concept to maj and min chords, and I use those voicings all the time on standards. To be sure, they are limited (because they only involve 2 notes), but they're extremely useful in certain settings and can similarly be extended. If you couple the ideas Fareed gives in this course with the more exotic voicings in the Galbraith book, things start to come together.

I also became a little more aware of just how important time and feel are to comping. Fareed makes those comps swing like crazy (IMHO)...it's not a matter of how hip the voicings are, but how good his timing is. I would love to have that guy comping under me...very solid.

One other thing I got out of the course was to move away from using the pick to strum while comping. I use my thumb now. It's just a much more subtle, mellow sound. Personal preference, of course.

I do have the Steve Kahn books, but I have not gone through them yet.

[jmstritt]

It has been said, but listen to great compers (Is that a word?) Guitar wise, Jim Hall definitely comes to mind. Listen to him backing Art Farmer, or the albums that he did duo with Bill Evan. That is really a master class in how much can you do without steping on toes. Jim Hall is an all time great!

The important thing is to listen! If you are playing with a bass player, don't play a ton of voicings on your lower string sets, they will clash. If you are playing with others, listen to the melody. If there is a 9th in the melody, don't play a b9. Other than those guidelines you have a lot of freedom. Just listen and see what sounds good to you and pleases the soloist.

[TruthHertz]

Do you live somewhere that has live music? Comping is about making choices in real time and reacting with those around you. I find this is much easier to see as a process when I'm doing it "a part of the band" or empathizing with the players. Sitting where I can see a pianist's hands is a lesson worth a million words.
Of course everything everyone else said is really great info too, but in a live situation, you can get an idea of what they might have played vs what they did play.
Listen a lot. Recordings by Bill Evans, as mentioned before, Monk can teach you a lot about using space, Ed Bikert and Mick Goodrick are good examples of imaginative harmony, and it will also depend on who you like to listen to. If you like Django, and want to play like him, you're going to think very differently from a duo with Bill Frisell and Tim Berne.
Either way, listen a lot. Train your ear. Be patient and just do it. You learn a lot by just playing with other people; maybe learn more by doing it badly.
David

[fep]

Originally Posted by nomadpenguin

what chords am i supposed to substitute? what rhythms should i play? when is it okay to play a melodic line? i just dont get it

Does a child in a sand box say, "What am I suppose to build? I don't get it."

No they don't.

[Buster Loaf]

I agree. Be patient. A lot of people take listening for granted, but it really is a skill and will develop naturally. Once you get good at it, you be able to use it find all the answers.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by fep

Does a child in a sand box say, "What am I suppose to build? I don't get it."

No they don't.

Just get in there and do it!

[IMG][/IMG]

[Reg]

Comping is about playing what's implied by the tune or as mentioned... what's implied by the situation... or what you want to imply.
Generally there are target points in most tunes... the changes and/or those target points.... that somewhat characterize the tune.
They can be harmonic or melodic. Those points become targets, you have freedom to approach those points with "chord patterns", which are basically collections of chords, or just a chord. As jazz players we usually use "chord patterns", which are really just common changes from tunes or standards, what has been used in tunes before. Our ears have been educated to hear and understand how they work. We're use to them. The better you get , the more you can add, make substitutions, even re-harms...
Just for note... A sub still has the same tonal reference as original... where as the re-harm implies a new tonal reference. That's why re-harms are a little more difficult, but again with practice... same principle applies. Also with rhythm and use of lead lines....
You can learn these applications of different concepts... from trial and error, memorization from listening to the tunes... or you can become aware of the actual harmonic concepts that come into play when jazz players comp.
The trial and error method is somewhat simple, but you do need to put in the time listening and learning the tunes. By far the most common.
Understanding Jazz harmonic concepts requires traditional music education to learn the language and basic music concepts, then quite a few different methods of understanding the same basic info. and a few new musical concepts and applications....There are more than one set of governing principles going on all the time. Obviously not that easy, most don't get through the traditional level...
I'm trying to keep it understandable without getting into details... oh yea... the second method also required the first...
I'm not trying to be funny.... it's not that easy.
You don't need to know everything to play jazz in a jazz style. But for most jazz players it's a lifetime commitment and it's what we love... Reg

[Gramps]

You have to walk before you run.

Try starting off just playing the changes as written, and play the changes 4 to the bar or 2 to the bar. (depending on the changes and song)

When you have that down, try adding some subs.

If you're unsure of what subs, pick out a song you know, explain what you're doing with it and ask for suggestions.

Your original post was very open like getting out of high school and askinig "How do I write a great book?"

I think you can successfully comp simply.