Right Direction?

[donriks]

Hello all, let me get right to it,
I have been playing off and on for about ten years, never had any lessons and only recently have been understanding how scales can be used in music. So I guess I am a beginner to understanding music even though I dont like to admit it
My question is...
Should I spend more time learning the major scale and penatonic before I try to tackle jazz? Or can someone recommend the right path for me?
I want to be able to improvise, play walking bass lines, and feel confident in my playing no matter what genre it be. Im also tired of just listening to jazz, I want to be able to play it.
Thanks.

[Bill C]

find a local teacher

[brwnhornet59]

Until you find a teacher you should familiarize yourself as much as possible with the major scale and its positions. You will want to learn chord forms as well as how to build them. Start with triads, they are 3 note chords that are comprised of the root, 3rd and 5th.

Maj
Min
Dim

Here are several links that lead you to the instructional part of the site. You can mess around with these ideas. But make sure you find a good teacher!!

Jazz Guitar Chord Theory


Jazz Guitar Theory : Chord Formulas


Good luck!

[jmstritt]

Definitely find a teacher. Having weekly accountability will help you stay on track and get this stuff down much quicker. For the time being work on your major scale.

You also want to get used to the basic chord qualities used in jazz. There are a lot of online resources that will show you some fingerings, or "grips" if you will for the most common chords. Be sure to start by working on Major 7th, Dominant 7th, Minor 7th, and Minor 7b5 chords. That should at least give you something to get started on. Enjoy the ride ;-)

[mr. beaumont]

Another +1 to a teacher...trying to learn jazz in a vaccuum will be tough if not impossible.

If there's one scale to know inside out it's the major scale. Make sure you know the notes, not just visual patterns on the neck...the major scale is even more important to understand than it is to be able to play it...

Chords are crucial for jazz. Again, don't just memorize shapes...learn how to build chords...I advocate knowing AT THE VERY LEAST a maj7, m7, 7 and m7b5 chord voicing with the root on the sixth, fifth, and fourth strings...that's 12 chord shapes to start...but it can lead to you knowing 100's...

[donriks]

Thnks guys, I appreciate it

[donriks]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Until you find a teacher you should familiarize yourself as much as possible with the major scale and its positions. You will want to learn chord forms as well as how to build them. Start with triads, they are 3 note chords that are comprised of the root, 3rd and 5th.

Maj
Min
Dim

Here are several links that lead you to the instructional part of the site. You can mess around with these ideas. But make sure you find a good teacher!!

Jazz Guitar Chord Theory


Jazz Guitar Theory : Chord Formulas


Good luck!

Getting an instructor is not an option at the moment but hopefully in the future.
I have been constructing my own scales based on the major scale pattern for semitone and tone. I am also just getting into contstructing triads, am I on the right track for getting out of playing in the first position?

[brwnhornet59]

Hmmm..Having someone to help you would be extremely beneficial to you.

There are many positions to play a Major scale in. On top of that the major scale has "modes" which are represented be each individual note of the scale. But at this point i would not even worry about modes. Here is a few examples of the C Major scale. Can you read tab? The lines represent the strings of the guitar. The lowest line is the low E string. The next line is the A string, then the D string, the G string, the B string and finally the high E string. The numbers represent the fret to be played. You are starting on C. The key is C Major. This goes through 2 octaves and ends on A.

The notes in C major are this: C, D, E, F, G, A, B



-----------------------------------1--3--5-----
----------------------------3--5---------------
-----------------2--4--5-----------------------
-------2--3--5---------------------------------
-3--5------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

Here is another position. This one starts on C and goes 3 octaves and ends on C. Is this to hard?

------------------------------------------5--7--8-
--------------------------------5--6--8-----------
----------------------4--5--7---------------------
------------3--5--7-------------------------------
--3--5--7-----------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------

This is an easy one that uses open strings and is on octave that ends on G

--------------------------------0--1--3-----
----------------------0--1--3---------------
---------------0--2-------------------------
-----0--2--3-------------------------------
--3-----------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------

Here is the same 1 octave scale but now we are going to start on the G note on the low E string. The key is still C Major even though in this instance we are starting on E. This way you can use every string.


----------------------------------------------0--1--3--
------------------------------------0--1--3------------
------------------------------0--2---------------------
--------------------0--2--3----------------------------
----------0--2--3--------------------------------------
-0--1--3-----------------------------------------------




Are you beyond this level? Tell me how you make out.

[donriks]

Oh yeah, I am beyond that.
I should give a little more detail about where I am as a player. I can read tab, I play weekly at a local resturant with a set list of over 3 hours (covers only). Everything from clapton to dave matthews.
I have good dexterity, strength, and control over both hands. I feel there isnt anything I cant learn.

I have the ebook from this site on chord construction and just begining to understand triads and 7ths and so on, and have been practicing finding the notes that make up the major chords all over the neck.
I have blank fretboard diagrams that I fill in the notes for, so I can get to know the chromatic scale as well as the notes on the guitar.
I also have been using the diagrams to construct major scales based the major scale formula, and then practicing these.

However, I really want to have that deep understanding that will enable me to improvise live in a solo act or duo setting, as well as helping my understanding of how to construct something original that isnt played using first position chords all the time.

Does this sound like Im taking the right path for my goals?

I just want to give an added thanks for helping me with this, I cant thank you guys enough for taking the time to help

[Gramps]

"Should I spend more time learning the major scale and penatonic before I try to tackle jazz?"

To answer this question. No, don't think of them as being seporate.

Do you play any jazz songs on your gig? If not choose a few that you like and apply any theory (scale) that your working on to those songs and any other song that's appropriate.

Good luck.

[brwnhornet59]

Ok, in lieu of what you told me you have mobility. Do you know all of the modes? Do you know all of the chords associated with the modes and the tensions that make each mode unique? Can you build and use all of the chords? How about arps? Can you play off of all of the modes starting on different fingers?

By all means start working on jazz in tandem with your other studies.

[Astronomer]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Another +1 to a teacher...trying to learn jazz in a vaccuum will be tough if not impossible.

...time to throw out my guitar then!

Kidding aside, having a teacher will greatly help you. Unfortunately, my parents can't afford to get me lessons, so I have to do the best I can with the resources at my fingertips. Probably the best thing that's been helping me lately is transcribing tunes. I don't mean specifically writing it down on manuscript paper, but just being able to learn bass parts, horn parts, guitar parts, etc by ear. Not only does that force you to not rely on tabs or looking at sheet music 24/7, but it gives you insight into what the great players were doing over certain chords and whatnot. I'd avoid writing down parts to learn them...because with that you're not learning the parts anyway, but just trying to read it (exactly the opposite goal of the exercise). I'd write down parts only as a tool for analyzing harmony. So yeah, pick a tune you like and get to work~

[donriks]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Ok, in lieu of what you told me you have mobility. Do you know all of the modes? Do you know all of the chords associated with the modes and the tensions that make each mode unique? Can you build and use all of the chords? How about arps? Can you play off of all of the modes starting on different fingers?

By all means start working on jazz in tandem with your other studies.

I dont know all of that yet, but that is what Ive been learning and practicing. I feel more confident about what Im doing now, thanks a million. However, now Im gonna be up all night!

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by donriks

I dont know all of that yet, but that is what Ive been learning and practicing. I feel more confident about what Im doing now, thanks a million. However, now Im gonna be up all night!

Matt Warnock : Jazz Guitar, Guitar Lessons & Guitar Journalism | MattWarnockGuitar.com

Go to this site. Look at the "Jazz Guitar Resources". There are all of the modes. Melodic minor, harmonic minor etc.. Tons and tons of chords. You can spend months in there. Good luck.

[coolvinny]

Originally Posted by donriks

Oh yeah, I am beyond that.
I should give a little more detail about where I am as a player. I can read tab, I play weekly at a local resturant with a set list of over 3 hours (covers only). Everything from clapton to dave matthews.
I have good dexterity, strength, and control over both hands. I feel there isnt anything I cant learn.

I have the ebook from this site on chord construction and just begining to understand triads and 7ths and so on, and have been practicing finding the notes that make up the major chords all over the neck.
I have blank fretboard diagrams that I fill in the notes for, so I can get to know the chromatic scale as well as the notes on the guitar.
I also have been using the diagrams to construct major scales based the major scale formula, and then practicing these.

However, I really want to have that deep understanding that will enable me to improvise live in a solo act or duo setting, as well as helping my understanding of how to construct something original that isnt played using first position chords all the time.

Does this sound like Im taking the right path for my goals?

I just want to give an added thanks for helping me with this, I cant thank you guys enough for taking the time to help

Sounds like you need to learn some tunes. Maybe just choose two to start. Something slow like Misty or Georgia On My Mind, and maybe an easy blues like Tenor Madness. Force yourself to learn to play these in multiple positions up the neck. You'll get some new chords under your fingers and you will start seeing the fretboard in a completely new light.

[donriks]

will do, thnks