Playing on one string

[Astronomer]

So, yesterday I was reading "The Advancing Guitarist" by Mick Goodrick and one of the first things he says is to learn single string playing before diving into position playing (and combining the two). And while I see the logic in his advice, I just don't quite understand how to practice this or rather, what am I supposed to practice. Am I supposed to practice scales, melodic phrases, arpeggios, or what? Should I practice hand shifting on moderately quick tunes? Oh, and I was also wondering how you guys approach certain interval jumps on a single string, like...do your prefer to stretch your pinky to reach a nearby note or do you prefer hand shifting?

Thanks.

[fep]

lots on that here:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...guitarist.html

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by Astronomer

And while I see the logic in his advice, I just don't quite understand how to practice this or rather, what am I supposed to practice. Am I supposed to practice scales, melodic phrases, arpeggios, or what? Should I practice hand shifting on moderately quick tunes? Oh, and I was also wondering how you guys approach certain interval jumps on a single string, like...do your prefer to stretch your pinky to reach a nearby note or do you prefer hand shifting?

Thanks.

Page 12 of that same book has suggestions.

As for the fingerings - it depends, there isn't a hard and fast rule.

I think in a sense you're missing the point of Mick's approach. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine that he'd answer your questions a little like:

Am I supposed to practice scales, melodic phrases, arpeggios, or what?

Maybe, why not?

Should I practice hand shifting on moderately quick tunes?

Maybe, why not?

o your prefer to stretch your pinky to reach a nearby note or do you prefer hand shifting?

Why not both?





Each individual page of that book could conceivably give you months, years, or a lifetime of material to practice. Instead of asking "what should I practice" or "how should I practice" maybe think of all the things you could practice and find what might be most useful to address in your playing right now. After all, you're the guitarist, and there's no graduation ceremonies from the school of Advancing Guitarists, knowhadimean?

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by Astronomer

...do your prefer to stretch your pinky to reach a nearby note or do you prefer hand shifting?

Start with one finger only. One finger: One String. Doesn't matter which finger or string. Key of C is best to start with. Play only the diatonic pitches. Sing each note letter as you play it. Keep it simple and build from there... "Happy Birthday" is a good "lick" to start with when you get your bearings...

[Astronomer]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Each individual page of that book could conceivably give you months, years, or a lifetime of material to practice. Instead of asking "what should I practice" or "how should I practice" maybe think of all the things you could practice and find what might be most useful to address in your playing right now. After all, you're the guitarist, and there's no graduation ceremonies from the school of Advancing Guitarists, knowhadimean?

I understand that his book isn't meant to be a method book by any stretch of the imagination, which is why I thought it would be beneficial to find a starting point for these things by asking for help. It's a matter of starting on the right foot and avoiding inefficiency by humbling around because of a lack of direction. Thinking about all of the things one could practice is fine, but that doesn't maximize one's practice time, and it definitely does not help a beginner discern a natural progression of concepts needed to avoid bad habits or further confusion.

@fep : Thanks for the link to that thread...I'm checking it out right now.
@whatswisdom: Okay, I'll try that. I'm fairly comfortable with playing in the key of C on almost all of the strings without having to think too much about it. I'll probably work on playing simple things like "Happy Birthday" and whatnot on all of the strings, and then in all 12 keys.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by Astronomer

. It's a matter of starting on the right foot and avoiding inefficiency by humbling around because of a lack of direction.

This might just be something that we disagree on philosophically, but I don't believe there is one correct path with this specific material. Some other courses are designed to get you playing decent swing lines over standards, the Advancing Guitarist doesn't have a specific goal like that - there's no real pinnacle you're supposed to reach except "advancing."

So I might argue that it's pretty hard to use the material inefficiently, or to lack direction with it, especially if you do this section of the book more or less as written. But anything you do with it will probably be useful. He says in the book "often my students ask me, 'should I do X or Y' and I usually respond 'why not do both?' "

Originally Posted by Astronomer

Thinking about all of the things one could practice is fine, but that doesn't maximize one's practice time

I agree that on the surface it seems more productive (in terms of time-management) to actually have your hands on the guitar and be practicing, rather than sitting at your desk pondering what to work on. But way I look at it, how can you figure out what to practice if you don't consider a lot of the different possibilities of what you could practice?

Getting advice on the internet is useful every now and again, but those of us reading your post have no idea what you sound like, what you want to sound like, and what the rest of your practice looks like. Similarly, you may not know what we sound like and how can you be so sure that advice we give is going to useful or optimal? Even if, hypothetically, we were all great players, I don't think that makes us authorities on how you should use Mick's book, and 'we' might steer you in a direction that doesn't have respect for your individual aspirations.

and it definitely does not help a beginner discern a natural progression of concepts needed to avoid bad habits or further confusion.

If we were talking about something more concrete, like how to memorize chord spelling or how to find workable voicings for 'Someday My Prince Will Come' - or how to develop proper left hand positioning - then I'd agree with you here. But the material of Advancing Guitarist is a bit different. I'd argue that the book doesn't advocate much of a natural progression, although Mick does point out that doing certain things before other certain things has some advantages. (For example, learning a lot about triads on the neck before tackling seventh chords.)

I'm fully aware it might seem ridiculous to some that I'm writing so much and getting so philosophical or overly-general about such specific questions. The big picture, for me, is the difference between "you must work on X to be a good guitarist" vs. a more open ended perspective where a player looks at him or herself honestly, assessing their own development so far, their goals, and picks what to work on based on that. To me, that's an issue worthy of discussion.

So...all that being said, here's what I think, more specifically about the original questions about practicing on one string:

Am I supposed to practice scales, melodic phrases, arpeggios, or what? Should I practice hand shifting on moderately quick tunes?

I think that if you want something concrete you could follow the instruction on page 12 ("Activities - Application") as written, maybe making some adjustments for what seems logical to you.

I think that what specifically you would practice with this single-string idea depends a lot on where you are right now in your playing and where you'd like to be. This is going back to the "think of all the things you could practice" idea.

For example, maybe you already feel comfortable with modal vamps but have more trouble playing over changes and want to remedy that. Maybe it's the opposite. Or maybe you have solid melodic ideas but can't find them on the fretboard as quick as you'd like. Maybe you'd like to have a better ear for the characteristic pitches in each mode or over each chord type. Maybe you are at a point with your playing and fretboard knowledge where working on single string stuff isn't even necessary and your time might be better spent learning tunes, or doing something rhythmic. The answers to those things help determine what the best use of your practice time is.

As for the technique issues re: shifts vs carries vs stretches, I've worked a bit on a lot of different left hand technique issues including pinky-leaps and found it all to be useful and helpful. What technique I personally use depends on the line, tempo, etc. More specifically though, I don't advocate stretching more than you really need to because it's not great for the health of your hand.

[Astronomer]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

This might just be something that we disagree on philosophically, but I don't believe there is one correct path with this specific material. Some other courses are designed to get you playing decent swing lines over standards, the Advancing Guitarist doesn't have a specific goal like that - there's no real pinnacle you're supposed to reach except "advancing."

In retrospect, I think I agree with you on this. Perhaps I was over-thinking what I should practice as opposed to exploring the possibilities.

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

So I might argue that it's pretty hard to use the material inefficiently, or to lack direction with it, especially if you do this section of the book more or less as written. But anything you do with it will probably be useful. He says in the book "often my students ask me, 'should I do X or Y' and I usually respond 'why not do both?' "

Yeah, as I was practicing yesterday and using vamps, and it suddenly "clicked" what I wanted to work on and how I wanted to work on it. I'm starting to see that perhaps I'm applying a linear approach similar to other subjects that may not apply to progressing on the guitar. And I guess in that respect, it makes the transformation all the more fluid (and frustrating).

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

I agree that on the surface it seems more productive (in terms of time-management) to actually have your hands on the guitar and be practicing, rather than sitting at your desk pondering what to work on. But way I look at it, how can you figure out what to practice if you don't consider a lot of the different possibilities of what you could practice?

Well, my concern was that I would be overwhelmed by all of the things I could work on, but fail to narrow my attention to one thing, making the application of my brainstorming inefficient.

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Getting advice on the internet is useful every now and again, but those of us reading your post have no idea what you sound like, what you want to sound like, and what the rest of your practice looks like. Similarly, you may not know what we sound like and how can you be so sure that advice we give is going to useful or optimal? Even if, hypothetically, we were all great players, I don't think that makes us authorities on how you should use Mick's book, and 'we' might steer you in a direction that doesn't have respect for your individual aspirations.

To be honest, I haven't thought of this point. Still, the advice on this forum seems trustworthy and beneficial to rookies like myself, which is why I don't doubt the expertise of those giving advice. I mean, I see advice on the internet as guidelines, not fundamental rules of law I have to follow. If I see reasonable advice that may apply to my situation, I'll take it and possibly modify it to better my purposes. I couldn't possibly expect someone who doesn't know my abilities to give extremely detailed advice, but I do hope he or she can steer me in the right direction or come up with something I would've failed to brainstorm myself.

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

If we were talking about something more concrete, like how to memorize chord spelling or how to find workable voicings for 'Someday My Prince Will Come' - or how to develop proper left hand positioning - then I'd agree with you here. But the material of Advancing Guitarist is a bit different. I'd argue that the book doesn't advocate much of a natural progression, although Mick does point out that doing certain things before other certain things has some advantages. (For example, learning a lot about triads on the neck before tackling seventh chords.)

Yeah, I made that mistake LOL. I was so stoked about learning tunes that I skipped the fundamentals and ended up shooting myself in the foot for it later. Basically, I learned the drop 2 and 3 seventh chords before mastering fast recognition of the fretboard (and its intervals and triads), and now I'm going back to practice the skills I have neglected. But yeah, I suppose you are right about that particular book.

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

I'm fully aware it might seem ridiculous to some that I'm writing so much and getting so philosophical or overly-general about such specific questions. The big picture, for me, is the difference between "you must work on X to be a good guitarist" vs. a more open ended perspective where a player looks at him or herself honestly, assessing their own development so far, their goals, and picks what to work on based on that. To me, that's an issue worthy of discussion.

I think my ambitions tend to overshadow self-assessment, which was why I felt the need to follow a more structured approach to my progress. Plus I'm completely self-taught (both guitar and music theory), and while I got the music theory part under control, I could always use a bit of "guidance" when it comes to guitar practice and whatnot.

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

So...all that being said, here's what I think, more specifically about the original questions about practicing on one string:


I think that if you want something concrete you could follow the instruction on page 12 ("Activities - Application") as written, maybe making some adjustments for what seems logical to you.

I think that what specifically you would practice with this single-string idea depends a lot on where you are right now in your playing and where you'd like to be. This is going back to the "think of all the things you could practice" idea.

For example, maybe you already feel comfortable with modal vamps but have more trouble playing over changes and want to remedy that. Maybe it's the opposite. Or maybe you have solid melodic ideas but can't find them on the fretboard as quick as you'd like. Maybe you'd like to have a better ear for the characteristic pitches in each mode or over each chord type. Maybe you are at a point with your playing and fretboard knowledge where working on single string stuff isn't even necessary and your time might be better spent learning tunes, or doing something rhythmic. The answers to those things help determine what the best use of your practice time is.

As for the technique issues re: shifts vs carries vs stretches, I've worked a bit on a lot of different left hand technique issues including pinky-leaps and found it all to be useful and helpful. What technique I personally use depends on the line, tempo, etc. More specifically though, I don't advocate stretching more than you really need to because it's not great for the health of your hand.

Well, I would like to say thank you for taking the time to give a detailed response to me; I really appreciate it. My immediate focus is breaking away from my dependency on "shapes" and navigating the guitar neck as I would a piano. While I love my scale shapes, I feel that has prevented me from truly exploring all of the possibilities I have while improvising.

[Billnc]

I took a course of his, about 40 hours and got to hang out with Mick. The advice given here seems pretty sound to what he is getting at. He is all about exploration and finding what YOU like while doing so. You will use less than 10 percent of what you discover by his own admission. I think the very act of working the problems out gives such a great view of the neck that is makes up the 'missing' 90 percent.

[cosmic gumbo]

For some folks, one string is all they need.

YouTube Video

[Stevebol]

Practicing on one string comes from bowed instruments like the violin. It's good to mess around with it without spending too much time on it.

[AmundLauritzen]

To me, single string playing became easier after I knew the positions on the guitar because I could visualize further ahead than before. Different stuff works for different people though. I find that playing on just one string at the time causes me to jump around too much. Doesn't work well for up tempo, but can work on ballads and slower stuff. I find that playing on two or three strings at the time seems to work better. My two cents.

[ronjazz]

Playing on one string will cause you to "jump around" a lot, which is not a bad thing at all. While it may seem difficult for uptempo tunes, check out any sitar work by a virtuoso, and watch as they fly up and down a much larger fingerboard, playing amazing improvs on one string. I can strongly suggest playing familiar melodies, from Twinkle Twinkle and Yankee Doodle to Misty and Corcovado on one string, without worrying about the key. Doing a few minutes of this daily will make position jumps much easier as we get deeper into the Leavitt books, but also in everyday playing.

[Gearhead]

Practicing playing on one string has helped me a lot to play more melodically and try to find the "right" note instead of let my fingers do the thinking. A friend of mine once took lessons with Mike Stern and he used to practice this approach a lot, playing arpeggios on one string with approach notes in all twelve keys...

I think it's a great approach...

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen

To me, single string playing became easier after I knew the positions on the guitar because I could visualize further ahead than before. Different stuff works for different people though. I find that playing on just one string at the time causes me to jump around too much. Doesn't work well for up tempo, but can work on ballads and slower stuff. I find that playing on two or three strings at the time seems to work better. My two cents.

I think playing on one string is, in the context of the book, approached as a practice strategy, not as the best way to make melodies/solos.