Where do I start?

[littlewing]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I've been interested in jazz music for a number of years primarily listening to Miles, Wes, Coltrane, Chick Corea, Bill Evans, and Thelonious Monk to name a few, and I've come to the point where I'd like to try a hand at jazz. I got a copy of Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book a few days ago and haven't been able to put it down since! So far I have learned all of the modes, but I am wondering what advice any experienced players would have in pursuing this, and how to learn the ropes.

Thanks,

John

[merritt stone]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

please don't start another thread on "Who is the best guitarist that ever lived?" at least until you've read the other 857 threads on that. You can start yours next week.

Yes, we've all come to the agreement that Rosenwinkel is the best modern jazz guitarist, Julian Lage is far superior to Django, and Wes is better than everyone ever. :P

[gingerjazz]

Hi Little wing,first off let me direct you to Matt Warnocks site there are loads of well presented lessons on there.The other thing is you mentioned learning about modes,while there is nothing wrong with this, if you are wanting to play over standards with a lot of chord changes many players prefer to think more in terms of using arpeggios and connecting them with chord tones and a few well placed chromatics for good measure.To my mind thinking of a new mode every time a new chord crops up gets in the way of making the music flow.Hope this helps

[Al_F]

Method book, learn tunes, the Real book is a good start. and a teacher are good routes. I started not too long ago via these routes.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

Hi Little wing,first off let me direct you to Matt Warnocks site there are loads of well presented lessons on there.The other thing is you mentioned learning about modes,while there is nothing wrong with this, if you are wanting to play over standards with a lot of chord changes many players prefer to think more in terms of using arpeggios and connecting them with chord tones and a few well placed chromatics for good measure.To my mind thinking of a new mode every time a new chord crops up gets in the way of making the music flow.Hope this helps

Matt Warnock : Jazz Guitar, Guitar Lessons & Guitar Journalism | MattWarnockGuitar.com

+1 to Matt's site. If you really want to learn, that is a great place to start. really look around. You could spend months there. Sign up for his newsletter and go through his lessons, there are many.

Good luck!

[littlewing]

Thanks alot guys!

[eddy b.]

Hey littlewing I'm glad you are taking the plunge...the advice I have is to learn tunes as many as possible... listen to Nat King Cole for the "standards", develop your ear so that you are learning as much jazz by ear as possible...jazz is a dialect of the language of music...so to play it we have to be able to "hear" it...all the "theory" is great but I think of it as "grammar" mastering it dosn't neccesarily give you anything to "say"...be patient with yourself and enjoy...for every scale or lick you learn, memorize two standard tunes...do this and you will be working in no time enjoy

[littlewing]

Could someone recommend a few songs with some easier changes for me to start with?

[gingerjazz]

Autumn leaves is often a good starter song to work on due to its major and minor 251s.

[pierre richard]

afro blue....summertime...blue bossa...comin home baby...bags N trane...are just a few with a few chords...

check out bert ligons site and jamie aebersolds site too for lists of tunes to play as a jazz musician..

time on the instrument...pierre

[darionapoli74]

Hi Littlewing,
my suggestion would be to learn and master the basic arpeggios:

minor
major
minor7
major7
dominant7
diminished
minor6
minor7b5
melodic minor
augmented

to have fun (and exercise) try playing entire tunes covering the chord structure with the respective arpeggios at first (you can then do the same with substitutions). Of course, you won't want to then necessarily play like this but this will help your technique, it will help you memorize tunes faster, it will develop your ear and you'll be more at ease on tunes with more chord changes over time.
Hope this helps

[SwingSwangSwung]

Here are a few chord voicings that might help out...

Master Guitarist -112 Diatonic 7th Chord Voicings Inside The Major Scale

[fep]

If your going to learn Blue Bossa, we did a group study of that song. It's here:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...ory-group.html

[littlewing]

Originally Posted by darionapoli74

Hi Littlewing,
my suggestion would be to learn and master the basic arpeggios:

minor
major
minor7
major7
dominant7
diminished
minor6
minor7b5
melodic minor
augmented

to have fun (and exercise) try playing entire tunes covering the chord structure with the respective arpeggios at first (you can then do the same with substitutions). Of course, you won't want to then necessarily play like this but this will help your technique, it will help you memorize tunes faster, it will develop your ear and you'll be more at ease on tunes with more chord changes over time.
Hope this helps

Where are some resources where I can find those arpeggios?

[darionapoli74]

I don't mind emailing them to you if you want

[littlewing]

That would be great!

[jdaguitar2]

I agree with everything that has been said thus far. I will add the following quote which is one of my personal favorites regarding the mentality of the jazz musician:

"You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail.
-Charlie Parker

[maxyG]

littlewing,

Jody Fisher's Intermediate Jazz Guitar is also a great resource for accurate tabs of the most important arpeggios in 5-6 different positions
(maj7, min7, dom7 and m7b5)

have fun!

[jmstritt]

As has been said, arpeggios are going to be your best starting point. In rock and pop music you generally solo over a key center, whereas in jazz you are soloing over chord changes. Of course that is a gross oversimplification, but it is good advice to get you started in the right direction. I'll give you a quick primer on thinking about arpeggios...

The most common chord progression in jazz is the ii V I. In the key of F, that means you will have the chords Gmin7 C7 and Fmaj7. If a note is in the chord you are playing it should sound good in the melody right? Try it, play a Gmin7 and then play a Bb note. Not bad right? Try a F, a D, a G. It all works doesn't it? Now go to C7, play a C. Sounds ok, kind of vanilla but it works right? Now try an E, a G, and a Bb. Now go to the Fmaj 7, try a F, an A, a C, and an E. See how these notes are representative of the chord you are playing over? This is why when you listen to jazz if you listen to just the soloist you should still get an idea of what is going on with the chord changes by the notes that the soloist is using, because the arpeggios give the solo direction.

Here is a little trick that will help your arpeggios sound more musical. It is called 7-3 resolution. What this means is that in the ii V I, the 7th of one chord will resolve down a 1/2 step to the 3rd of the next chord. This is useful, because the 7th and 3rd of the chord tell us the quality of the chord. Here is how this looks in action...

Gmin 7 arpeggio: G Bb D F
C7 arpeggio: C E G Bb
Fmaj7 arpeggio: F A C E

Now let's put those notes in order...

G Bb D F- E C G Bb- A C E F - E

Not bad huh? You're sounding like a jazzer already! ;-)

[jmstritt]

To expand on my last post, you can do the same thing for minor ii V is. For example...

Gmin7b5 C7 Fmin7

Gmin7b5 arpeggio: G Bb Db F
C7 arpeggio: C E G Bb
Fmin7 arpeggio: F Ab C Eb

In the minor ii V i, you do not have the 7-3 resoultion going from the V chord to the minor i, because the third of the i is a half step lower. You do however have a halfstep resolution between the 3rd of the V and the 7th of the i. (E, to Eb).

G Bb Dd F- E C G E- Eb C Ab F- Ab

Also work on learning tunes, any of the tunes that have been suggested would work. Blue Bossa, Autumn Leaves, Take the A Train, Satin Doll, etc.

[Carraway]

Hi. As a developing jazz sax player I found the Aebersold play-alongs were a great help, particularly as I began improvising. They can be found at Jamey Aebersold Jazz . The first three volumes are great places to start and no matter how good you you get, you'll never outgrow playing over a 12 bar blues or a ii/V7/I progression.

[Bloomfield89]

Hi,

I'm new here as well and found this thread really useful. I've been working on autumn leaves as well.However, I realised that my playing has been rather dull. Especially since I'm trying to think "vertically". I'm from a blues background, so basically with 3 chords, its easier to think of lines that can run over these 3 chords.

However with jazz, chord changes are way more, and there are more chords. Hence, i find that its difficult to play in the arpeggio manner while making the lines all sound coherent even though they are from different keys.

Or is this because I'm still fresh to the arpeggios? Just learnt them about 3 weeks ago.

Any recommended listenings? I've been listening to some Coltrane and Joe pass, but these are a little complex for me to pull out the ideas.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by Bloomfield89

Hi,

I'm new here as well and found this thread really useful. I've been working on autumn leaves as well.However, I realised that my playing has been rather dull. Especially since I'm trying to think "vertically". I'm from a blues background, so basically with 3 chords, its easier to think of lines that can run over these 3 chords.

However with jazz, chord changes are way more, and there are more chords. Hence, i find that its difficult to play in the arpeggio manner while making the lines all sound coherent even though they are from different keys.

Or is this because I'm still fresh to the arpeggios? Just learnt them about 3 weeks ago.

Any recommended listenings? I've been listening to some Coltrane and Joe pass, but these are a little complex for me to pull out the ideas.

3 weeks is a very short time. Although arp playing is extremely important, especially in bebop, a tune like Autumn Leaves is a ballad with one key center. This means that the blanket effect of just playing the parent key will work, like you referred to with the blues background that you came from.

The flipside is thinking about voice leading into specific target notes. This approach can be very simple and vanilla or as deep and diverse as your theory and your ears will take you. Ultimately you want to be able to solo using modal interchange, while sounding seamless in your transitions. We all strive for this. Practice and study, is the only way to achieve this. Listening is one of the most important tools at your disposal.

If you want to develop a jazz vocabulary you must be diligent as well as patient. Keep applying arps every chance you get. You need to develop short lines that help you start to sound smooth melodically. With arps it is just as important to be able to play 1 octave at any place on the neck, as it is to know 2 and 3 octave shapes everywhere. Knowing your fret board intimately is a must. Develop small lines using scales as well. Soon you will not think about playing scales, you will be playing lines in different key centers. Then intermix the two.

If you want to make music, embrace this, have fun with it, and know that you must overcome these obstacles. It is all part of the journey that we are all on. Keep practicing and good luck.

[Bloomfield89]

Hey thanks for the advice. I guess at this point I'm kinda limited by my ears. Seems like i'm on the right path, just that i gotta be patient and keep chipping away.

It seems for blues, I roughly know how to play next from my ears.But for jazz, hm...im kinda lost without the pentatonics. Gotta keep listening.