Beginning to Transcribe, Help

[CyanFusion]

Hey guy I was wondering if I could get some specific advice.

My jazz guitar playing is going pretty well and I feel i have most bases covered at a beginner learning level. I am trying to be 'very thorough with the basics' as said by Ben Monder.

The base that I do not have covered is transcribing. Does transcribe mean for me to listen to a tune and work out all the chords and chorus,head etc or does it mean transcribe a specific solo by a guitar player; if that is so should i look up the chords first?

This maybe be very dependant and servile but i was wondering if someone could suggest me a tune and what I do from there.

Any help would be great appreciated
Thanks, Jack

[pauln]

You will get a lot of different methods and approaches here...

What I do is listen to it and figure it out. I figure out the chord progression first. The melody is easier for me to understand after I know the chords under it; so I hear it in context. The comping style and techniques I study enough to learn the feel of the song.
For solos, I just listen to them and figure them out, phrase by phrase. Getting the phrases to swing and connect, the dynamics, and the expressiveness just comes with practicing the song well after I have learned it.

Here is the one I'm listening to right now.

Wes Round Midnight

[Al_F]

This software will slow it down with out losing pitch -

Seventh String Software - the home of Transcribe!

[Reg]

Form...rhythm, then either changes or melody .
I'm from school of...don't use slow down software... if you simply want the music... get it somewhere else.... if your training your ears... train them. Reg

[TruthHertz]

I would suggest that you make sure good thorough ear training is a part of any transcribing you do, they will help each other and more importantly give you some context for stuff that will become your own.
As to what you should work on, what's the last thing you listened to that you said "I have GOT to be able to do that some day"? I'm not talking about something so fast or technical that it's a finger exercise, I mean wonderfully compelling for some reason known only to you. That would be a nice candidate and something you will be proud to have worked on.
Find something with a nice lyric line that can draw on your intervallic knowledge with, again from your own tastes. Personally, I would find early Miles or Lee Konitz a useful thing to have in my mind.
Some people see value in writing it down on paper. I learn them to the point where I can sing what I want, and sing it with the full knowledge of what the artist's choices were over that part of the form and why those notes were chosen.
But that's just me. I don't transcribe a lot. It's a conscious choice. I only do it when there is something that makes it a logical choice, like understanding the harmonic and melodic components of a passage that just stands out in a Coltrane blues solo, or a Keith Jarrett solo.
Do it for a reason.
David

[M-ster]

Originally Posted by pauln

Here is the one I'm listening to right now.

Wes Round Midnight

I transcribed this recently and would be willing to compare notes with you, PaulN.

[JakeAcci]

I agree with David and others who say you should transcribe the things that really jump out to you personally - then you are integrating vocabulary that you LOVE into your playing, rather than just transcribing as an exercise in jazz proficiency.

However, I also think there is a problem/solution nature to transcribing. Here are a few example "problems:"

-You have trouble hearing the changes in tunes

-You don't know enough tunes

-You want more vocabulary over changes

-You want more vocabulary over longer harmonic rhythms

-You don't know enough voicings

-Your comping is rhythmically stale

-You have trouble hearing what the bass is playing in your gigs/sessions

Etc....could list more

Each one of these "problems" can have a solution that involves transcription, but the type of transcription you might do would vary depending on what you're trying to achieve.

I don't agree with Reg about abstaining from slow down software. I like getting things really exact, and figuring out all the little nuances and articulations. I slow down fast passages and I also use computer programs where I can isolate short passages (even one note if needed) rather than putting on a CD and constantly rewinding.

If anything, relating to what I wrote above, I think there are different purposes to both using and abstaining from software like that. It's cool to test your ears to see if you can put together a longer passage, but for me sometimes the point isn't to challenge my ears as much as possible but to get the music as accurate as possible.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by CyanFusion

This maybe be very dependant and servile but i was wondering if someone could suggest me a tune and what I do from there.

Any help would be great appreciated
Thanks, Jack

Start with a slow chord melody, a ballad. Transcribe the whole thing. Intro, melody, solos, outro.

That's a good place to start.

I use Transcribe to really get every note. I'd miss too much without it.

[CyanFusion]

Thanks for the all the advice,
I am going to work on 'Swing To Bop' by CC
It's working out the chord changes that scare me. I am fairly confident with the lines

[jtizzle]

I used to be in the same mindset as Reg, but then I found that a lot of things I want to transcribe I can't keep up with the speed, so it's physically not possible for me to play. I slow it down to about 80% to be able to play along with it and build it up to speed.
When I transcribe, I'm not good at getting all the changes, so I try to at least get down a bassline that goes along with what I'm listening, then after I have something mapped out, I'll usually open up one of my real books and see what the exact changes are and how far off I am.

[ah.clem]

Originally Posted by CyanFusion

... It's working out the chord changes that scare me. I am fairly confident with the lines

Then start by working out the bass line. More often than not, it is outlining a fairly predictable progression. If you can play the bass line and the melody line together then (IN MY OPINION) it should be pretty easy to figure out the progression. I do this when analyzing/transcribing big band charts as well as solo guitar stuff and it works quite well. Also (IN MY OPINION), using something like "Audacity" (free) to loop and slow down tricky sections while trying to get the inner voice movement makes life a whole lot easier (trying to analyze 18 instruments in tutti at 220 bbm can make you crazy). Like anything else, the more you do it the faster you will get.

Do whatever you need to do to figure it out; it's quite a great feeling of accomplishment to sit and play something that intimidated you just a few weeks before. It never gets old for me.

[Drumbler]

What's weird is I can transcribe a line one day, then go back to the same line another day and discover how I had it incorrect.

It's strange how that works.

[Jweele01]

Transcribing classical pieces was a good place to start for me, personally. Especially pieces that are either straight counterpoint or just very contrapuntal help a lot. You'll get better at distinguishing notes from one another that way - handy for the next step, which would be transcribing chords. (For me, at least)

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

What's weird is I can transcribe a line one day, then go back to the same line another day and discover how I had it incorrect.

It's strange how that works.

It makes perfect sense. We hear from a different side of our brain when we're thinking detail than we do when we "hear" it in a global musical way. The trick is to get them both to work together!
David

[jmstritt]

Originally Posted by CyanFusion

Thanks for the all the advice,
I am going to work on 'Swing To Bop' by CC
It's working out the chord changes that scare me. I am fairly confident with the lines

If you analyze the lines, it should at the very least hint at the chord changes. If you hear a Bb, D, and an E and the bass player is hitting a C... guess what chord you have?

[fingerpicking]

I think if you're new to transcribing you shouldn't give yourself too hard a time. Get a hold of the chord changes for the song you're transcribing as this will put the lines you're transcribing into context. Use a software package like transcribe that slows things down. As you get more experienced at transcribing then you'll get faster and more accurate and be able to naturally drop these aides. The most important thing is to keep transcribing as there is no better way of getting into a style of music or a particular players style.

"Imitate. Assimilate. Innvate." Clark Terry

[JazzHifi]

hi folks, i even start to learn jazz and try to transcript.
the track i'm actually working is, so what from miles.

is it normal that transcripting is such a hard way? 5 days and i have just finish about 50% of the starting solo of miles ( transcripting it on paper )?! oh god!!

i dont want to use slow down software for this modal jazz.

any tipps for me?
is it better to play simultaneously to the licks or trying to keep them in my mind and then start transcripting?

[ten left thumbs]

I can spend an hour on 4 bars.

Why don't you want to slow it?

Two ways of doing it: just sing it till you get it, then play. Or, directly learn on instrument. Both work. Writing it out is an optional extra.

[coolvinny]

Originally Posted by Mr. D

hi folks, i even start to learn jazz and try to transcript.
the track i'm actually working is, so what from miles.

is it normal that transcripting is such a hard way? 5 days and i have just finish about 50% of the starting solo of miles ( transcripting it on paper )?! oh god!!

i dont want to use slow down software for this modal jazz.

any tipps for me?
is it better to play simultaneously to the licks or trying to keep them in my mind and then start transcripting?

I transcribed Miles' solo on So What about a month ago - it was a fun process and took me about 3 practice sessions. I learned each 'phrase' individually/sequentially using a looper until I had the first chorus down, then I repeated the process on the 2nd chorus. Playing "along" with the soloist is hard until you have the whole thing down...I think it's better to just play each phrase immediately after they do, correct, repeat, etc, which is why having a loop function is nice.

I used The Amazing Slow Downer on my iPhone (which I hooked up to my stereo) to loop and slow down. Given it's taken you 5 days to get to 50% and it took me, a WEAK intermediate jazz guitarist at best, only 3 practice sessions to get 100% of the solo, I think you are making life too difficult by avoiding slow-down software....why make transcribing any harder than it already is? You can always try learning each phrase at full speed using only the loop function, and then only slow down if you have trouble learning at that speed (which it sounds like you, like all of us, do).

Slowing it down by only 20% makes a HUGE difference when learning.

I'm transcribing Charlie Parker's solo on "My Little Suede Shoes" now and it would be impossible for me to do it without slow-down software.

I don't think you need to make make this journey harder than it already is.... Any particular reason you are avoiding using such a useful tool as slow-down software?

[JazzHifi]

Thanks for your help !
some musicians told me, that it makes no sense to use slow down software for transcripting.. learning it by real tempo should train your ears and rythm better.

i have not so problems to identify the notes . i've problems to write down the exakt rythmn in notes and phrasing, to the paper.


actually i bougth also the amazing slow downer for my ipad , its a great sortware oO

ps sorry guys for my english but i'm austrian :-)

[jasonc]

I recommend going phrase by phrase (if you're transcribing solos) and not note by note. What helped me a lot was to loop a phrase and sing it until I could sing the phrase without the recording and then figured out what I was singing. Charlie Christian's stuff would be an excellent choice for what I'm talking about as he played fairly singable lines.

[ten left thumbs]

Hi Mr D, so sometimes you need to work out what's important - to be able to analyse the rhythm and write it correctly, or just to play it. If the latter, then, you can just play.

But if you want to write the rhythm, then I honestly recommend Transcribe - as you can mark the beats visually and work it out from there. It will improve you sense of rhythm. But it is hard to do.

[JazzHifi]

thanks for your professional tipps! i wil try transcripe and ASD and ope that my skill will improve soon.

[JazzHifi]

i´m absolutely impressed how i improve my transcription, just "trying" to sing the notes, remember it and than playing on the guitar ... its stunning how good this methods work !

[ten left thumbs]

Very true. You don't need to sing it well, but by scat singing, you really make yourself engage in the line and internalise it. Playing it on an instrument is another level, but just getting the singing done is a good use of practice time.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by Al_F

This software will slow it down with out losing pitch -

Seventh String Software - the home of Transcribe!

A word of disclaimer: I have more opinions than experience, although I do have some experience. That said and FWIW: I do not transcribe as a means of learning vocabulary. I transcribe as a means of practicing hearing. There are books of licks for vocabulary, and excellent transcriptions are frequently available too. But I am told by better people than me that learning to hear in detail can be facilitated by transcribing. To that end ...

• With due respect to Reg, get the software that Al_F mentioned - Transcribe from Seventh String - and use it as a training tool for developing your hearing. Use every feature that makes your life easier. In any kind of training, including musical training, there is a well understood need to adjust the level of difficulty to manageable levels. This is what Transcribe will do for you, most notably the variable tempo feature, but also looping, the ability to set section, measure, and beat markers, the annotation feature, and occasionally the transpose feature. And IMO Transcribe is much better for transcribing than some competing products (e.g., the Amazing Slow Downer). Yes, some people were born with monster ears. But for the rest of us, transcription software is a godsend. Welcome to the 21st century.
• Don't hesitate to use a lead sheet.There is some sort of fake book or set of fake books for most genres. Buy it (or them). Among other things, a fake book will jump start your transcription in the same way as starting a partly completed puzzle. Just remember that the fake book is a more or less approximate guide.
• FWIW, I usually start by working out the overall structure of the tune, then the melody statement in the head followed by the basic chords or visa versa, then ... it depends.
• Feel free to transcribe tunes in whole or in part. You can do all the measures or just some of them. You can do lines, chords, or both. You can do all the instruments ... or not ... etc. As someone already said, transcribe what grabs you.

Good luck.

[ten left thumbs]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

Yes, some people were born with monster ears. But for the rest of us, transcription software is a godsend. Welcome to the 21st century.

Aye, but, in the good ol days they used to play a record slow to hear the licks. And it was easy to pick the needle up and put it in the right spot. Don't think we invented this game because we didn't, our grandparents did.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

HA! You're right TLT. Come to think of it, they invented looping too, only they didn't appreciate it.