Mickey Baker Noobie question:D13b5b9 - How can it be a D chord, if the D is muted?

[Morpeli]

Hi,

Hope someone here can explain...Thank you!

Is the D string in the D13b5b9 chord meant to be muted or played?
If the D string is meant to be muted how can the chord be called a 'D' chord?

Thank you!

[monk]

This is an example of b5 or tritone substitution.

The chord in question is actually an Ab7#9 which would sound like D13b5b9 when the bass player plays a D. The notes in the chord from low to high in reference to the unplayed D root are:
Ab(b5) Eb(b9) C9(b7) F#(3) B(13).

[mr. beaumont]

A chord does not need to have a root.

That chord is "functioning" as a D dominant sound...it's taking you from the Am to the G.

I never did get why Baker introduced a rootless altered dominant with a b5 in the bass in the first lesson...but hey, once you got that one under your belt...

[Morpeli]

Thanks!

So the Baker book is really staring to confuse me now!!!
I thought I would like to learn some 'Jazz' chords....but this is really counter-intuitive to me now.

I am a regular I IV V major chords, power chords rock kinda guy....

So how does one remember a chord when there is no root on the fingerboard to finger? ;-)

[jtizzle]

That's the thing about Jazz, it takes you away from rock and more into the thinking music.

You remember the chord by what the "root" is. In this case, the b5. You can also relate it to the actual root. When I play tritone subs, I look for the root and find the tritone from there. It seems like a process but it comes instantaneously for me.

I've never used or seen the Mickey Baker books, but there's a book by Andrew Green which shows more conventional chords, and also goes into more advanced stuff, such as using the same chord shapes for different things. I suggest you get that one too.

[monk]

There are rootless seventh, ninth and thirteenth chords in blues. It's not really a big deal.

You just learn where to use them and it eventually becomes as natural as playing cowboy chords.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by Morpeli

Thanks!

So the Baker book is really staring to confuse me now!!!
I thought I would like to learn some 'Jazz' chords....but this is really counter-intuitive to me now.

I am a regular I IV V major chords, power chords rock kinda guy....

So how does one remember a chord when there is no root on the fingerboard to finger? ;-)

Reference the position to the D note on the A string, 5th fret.

Don't think so much, just practice it. All will be clear in time.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Don't think so much, just practice it. All will be clear in time.

Good advice for all things Mickey Baker. It's good stuff. Just play it. Get another book if you want things explained. Mickey baker is simple and will quickly get you playing jazzy sounding music.

I think that calling it D is basically a very old fashioned naming convention. Used to be, theorists liked for things to resolve down a 5th. So, since it's really functioning as a D dominant, they would name it that way to recognize that function.

Nowadays, that chord would probably just be named Ab. In 2011, we're used to seeing things resolve down a half step and we're cool with that. At the same time, we understand that when that chord resolves down a half step it's really functioning as a D chord. It's just a lot easier to see it written as Ab.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Morpeli

Hi,

Hope someone here can explain...Thank you!

Is the D string in the D13b5b9 chord meant to be muted or played?
If the D string is meant to be muted how can the chord be called a 'D' chord?

Thank you!

I think it was Lester Young who said that you should let the audience have a chance to hear all those thing you don't play. He had a point there. If you don't play that D, the audience will "hear" it anyway, if the chord comes in the right and logic place in the progression.

In jazz, tones are constantly omitted from chords to slim down the sound to something less massive and/or to avoid clashes with other member of the band. Unless you are playing solo guitar you are not alone in the band, and you don't have to play all the voices yourself.

The only two notes necessary to characterize the chord as major, minor or dominant is the 3rd and the 7th. The rest is icing on the cake so to speak.

The bass player will likely play the root, and the pianist and other band members will likely take care of the higher extensions. The 5ths can safely be omitted altogether. With no pianist, you may be required to play fuller chords though. And if playing solo, you will of course have to play it all yourself. But even if playing solo, you have to make up your mind if you want to be the guitaristic answer to Art Tatum or want to leave some things implied.

[Morpeli]

Thanks all. Those explanations make sense.

[Spirit59]

Originally Posted by oldane

The only two notes necessary to characterize the chord as major, minor or dominant is the 3rd and the 7th. The rest is icing on the cake so to speak...

And even those may be omitted in some of the more modern dominant voicings...

[Al_F]

I've been working through this book as well and the whole idea about 'just practicing it' seems to work, especially after transposing to different keys, it sinks into memory. I love the sound of that chord by the way!

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Spirit59

And even those may be omitted in some of the more modern dominant voicings...

It doesn't even have to be so modern. Freddie Green used so called "one note chords" from the 1940s as a part of his style (though that one note usually was either the 3rd or the 7th).

To the OP: My ponit is, when playing with a band, the guitarist doesn't have to play the whole arrangement himself - there are other members in the band who takes care of those notes he doesn't play. Wery often, arrangements has guitar chords written with a lot of extensions, reflecting the total arrangement, but that it most often only a starting point for the guitarist to use his own judgement. Often it is useful for the guitarist to have those extensions and alterations there in the score. Say, if the arrangement has a #5, it will clash if the guitarist plays a natural 5. That doesn't mean the guitarist has to play that #5, but if not, he will have to omit the 5 alltogether. If a more syrupy dance band arrangement says only D7, it's less likely that the guitarist will get away with stacking dissonant high intervals ad libitum, as this is dance music, not McCoy Tyner. If one wants to play play it safe, using only the 3rd and the 7th in comping will do, though it may not always be terribly inventive, depending on the context.