What should be in a curriculum for self-learning Jazz guitar

[ecohen]

I've been self-learning, supplemented by the occassional lesson, jazz guitar for the last 16 months. Here's the curriculum I've followed. I'd love input on what I've missed as well as what one should really get a teacher for vs. self-study.

Here is the rough order of what I've done. I've had several lessons to help with technique and for suggestions on where to go next. For this year, I'd really like to improve improvisational skills.

1. Basic chords (CAGED) and music reading capabilities
2. Fretboard and five major scale shapes
3. Memorize the Circle of Fifths to quickly get relative minors
4. Pentatonic (and blues scales) within the scale shapes
5. Learn 7th chords (Maj, Min, Dom, flat 5 and then some extensions) and then match them to scale patterns
6. Learn all the notes within each chord and scale (though I'm lazy about it and still pattern/degree number oriented)
7. Learn inversions across all screens (inc. drop 2 voicings)
8. Start regularly learning new standards with different voicings (and never stop)
9. Practice progressions and improvising using related modes (still not good at it)
10. Start trying basic chord-melody on standards memorized
11. Learn arpeggio patterns to use in improvisation (still working on it)

What's up next?

• Keep practicing chord changes so that they are faster, smoother etc
• Develop a better ear for chords without having heard the progression (I'm getting decent with standards/progressionals I know)
• Develop a library of licks

What else? What should I focus on? I'm thinking of just lots of licks and arpeggio patterns to help with improvisation as my current year goal is to really improve my ability to improvise?

[FatJeff]

1) LISTEN to as much jazz (from all eras) as you possibly can. Listen every day. Sing along with it.
2) TRANSCRIBE your favorite solos.
3) PLAY along with great jazz records. Learn the heads, the lyrics, and the chord progressions, and practice improvising over these.

Your list is heavy on the technical aspects of playing (which is also important), but to really play jazz you have to get it inside your ears as well as your fingers.

[Stackabones]

Numbers 1-10 should be learning & memorizing tunes. The rest of the stuff is good, but you're a bit off balance with all the technical stuff. A good jazzman should know more songs than theory & technique imo. Without a good headful of songs, all the other stuff is just wiggling your fingers. YMMV.

[Jazzaluk]

+1

The tunes will teach much more than theory.

[jimiclaptoncarl18]

Well, now I see what I need to change too!

[ecohen]

Thank you. I should have noted that I do listen to as much jazz as I can (in the car, gym, while working etc). The curriculum is about having the tools to then play what I hear - ie, focus on finding the best chord not figuring out how to form a chord.

[gingerjazz]

I noticed you dont have any ear training exercises in there.ALSO YOU MENTIONED ABOUT LEARNING THE NOTES IN THE SCALES,THIS IS IMPORTANT but i think it is more important to know which degree/interval of the scale they are ie major third,minor seventh etc.

[Stackabones]

Originally Posted by ecohen

Thank you. I should have noted that I do listen to as much jazz as I can (in the car, gym, while working etc). The curriculum is about having the tools to then play what I hear - ie, focus on finding the best chord not figuring out how to form a chord.

Of course, listening is good, but I think most of us are talking about learning songs on the guitar -- not just listening. Learn and memorize.

[C.A.JO.]

Once you have a basic understanding of how chords are constructed and how scales work over chords start focusing on tunes.

Use every tune as vehicle for which chords and scales you're going to pratice.

Start transcribing solos! Steal the licks you like, and implement them to your own playing.

The most important "technical stuff" to practice is scale-connection and chords in different inversions all over the neck (in all keys) along with arpeggios starting from the 3rd.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by ecohen

I've been self-learning, supplemented by the occassional lesson, jazz guitar for the last 16 months. Here's the curriculum I've followed. I'd love input on what I've missed as well as what one should really get a teacher for vs. self-study.

Here is the rough order of what I've done. I've had several lessons to help with technique and for suggestions on where to go next. For this year, I'd really like to improve improvisational skills.

1. Basic chords (CAGED) and music reading capabilities
2. Fretboard and five major scale shapes
3. Memorize the Circle of Fifths to quickly get relative minors
4. Pentatonic (and blues scales) within the scale shapes
5. Learn 7th chords (Maj, Min, Dom, flat 5 and then some extensions) and then match them to scale patterns
6. Learn all the notes within each chord and scale (though I'm lazy about it and still pattern/degree number oriented)
7. Learn inversions across all screens (inc. drop 2 voicings)
8. Start regularly learning new standards with different voicings (and never stop)
9. Practice progressions and improvising using related modes (still not good at it)
10. Start trying basic chord-melody on standards memorized
11. Learn arpeggio patterns to use in improvisation (still working on it)

What's up next?

• Keep practicing chord changes so that they are faster, smoother etc
• Develop a better ear for chords without having heard the progression (I'm getting decent with standards/progressionals I know)
• Develop a library of licks

What else? What should I focus on? I'm thinking of just lots of licks and arpeggio patterns to help with improvisation as my current year goal is to really improve my ability to improvise?

Wow.

Too many things. You need to simplify.

Learn a tune. Learn the melody. Comp the chords. Improvise over the chords. Rotate the tune through different keys.

Learn another tune. Repeat above for a long time.

All else will work itself out.

[Stackabones]

Originally Posted by C.A.JO.

Once you have a basic understanding of how chords are constructed and how scales work over chords start focusing on tunes.

IMO that's exactly backwards. Tunes first, then theory. I didn't get into jazz because of how scales worked over chords. I loved the tunes. YMMV.

[fep]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Numbers 1-10 should be learning & memorizing tunes. The rest of the stuff is good, but you're a bit off balance with all the technical stuff. A good jazzman should know more songs than theory & technique imo. Without a good headful of songs, all the other stuff is just wiggling your fingers. YMMV.

+1, I agree, there's nothing as important as songs, imo.

To simplify matters, work through that Mickey Baker book (which you're doing) and add lots of tunes.

Set a goal of knowing/memorizing the chords and melody to 100 jazz standards and play at least 10 from your repetoire each day...

Hey, that's a good goal for me too (it actually is a goal of mine).

[jokron]

Originally Posted by ecohen

I've been self-learning, supplemented by the occassional lesson, jazz guitar for the last 16 months. Here's the curriculum I've followed. I'd love input on what I've missed as well as what one should really get a teacher for vs. self-study.

Here is the rough order of what I've done. I've had several lessons to help with technique and for suggestions on where to go next. For this year, I'd really like to improve improvisational skills.

1. Basic chords (CAGED) and music reading capabilities
2. Fretboard and five major scale shapes
3. Memorize the Circle of Fifths to quickly get relative minors
4. Pentatonic (and blues scales) within the scale shapes
5. Learn 7th chords (Maj, Min, Dom, flat 5 and then some extensions) and then match them to scale patterns
6. Learn all the notes within each chord and scale (though I'm lazy about it and still pattern/degree number oriented)
7. Learn inversions across all screens (inc. drop 2 voicings)
8. Start regularly learning new standards with different voicings (and never stop)
9. Practice progressions and improvising using related modes (still not good at it)
10. Start trying basic chord-melody on standards memorized
11. Learn arpeggio patterns to use in improvisation (still working on it)

What's up next?

• Keep practicing chord changes so that they are faster, smoother etc
• Develop a better ear for chords without having heard the progression (I'm getting decent with standards/progressionals I know)
• Develop a library of licks

What else? What should I focus on? I'm thinking of just lots of licks and arpeggio patterns to help with improvisation as my current year goal is to really improve my ability to improvise?

Well this scedule seems perfect...if you want to be the best excercise-player in the world.

But...if you want to be a musician, alone or in a group or both, you need some rethinkin' in my opinion:

1. What are your long-time goal? To play in a group? Be a studio musician? Play solo like Joe Pass?

A. Play in a group? Well then you have to learn tunes from lead sheet with melody lines an chord symbols and to solo. You are expected to comp, play the lead and solo, so that's what you have to practice. No one in the group (or the audience) will ever ask you to play melodic minor scale up and down three octaves...or play 2-5-1 through the cycle of fifth. But, they will ask you to comp a singer, a soloist or to play the lead and sometimes take a solo. No, practice tunes as similar to the role you want to play in the future. Listen to music, try to hear what tones wants to be played, not what you know belongs to the scale and the chord. Trust your ears and feeling. So, buy a Real Book and get some backing tracks (look att Aebersolds series for example) and play, play, play...and when you're not able to hold your axe, listen, listen and listen and it will come to you.

B. Studio musician? Well, that's a little bit tougher...you'll have to learn how to read music, not just lines but also chords, so get a real good book to learn from, for exampel William Leavitt "A Modern Method for guitar 1-3" Berklee Basic Guitar: Phase 1 - Leavitt guitar instruction and a whole new musical world will open up for you.

C. Solo guitar á la Joe Pass? Well, Joe didn't read music, but started very early, forced to by his father. Listen - imitate - play could be the recepie here, but I really would recommend Leavitts books as a start and then look for books that contain chord melodies for guitar, there's a bunch of them...

We often make the mistake to think "When I've played all the scales, all the chords and all the arpeggios I'll be a jazz guitarist". Excercises makse you good at ... excerxises, playing music (even if it's very simple at the beginning) makes you good at playing music. Another thing to remember is that you're not mainly playing for other musicians the day you step out of the closet, you're playing for people who mostly knows much less about music, but wants to hear something that touches their mind. Listen to "Kind of blue" with Miles Davis, for instance...not very complicated, but what a feeling it brings...

my 25 cents, for what it's worth.

Jokron

[fumblefingers]

I believe in a symmetrical approach. Learn your art according to musicianship "levels". The concept is easy. It’s not about "learn tunes then technique" or "learn technique then tunes". It’s about balance. (BTW - your technique list is far from complete for an advanced player so don't worry, you have a lot left to work on.)

Each level should include technique, reading, and tunes. Intermediate levels and above will include a lot of improv as well.

See the Berklee guitar home page and handbook (levels 1-8). (Note: Although this is for college music majors, level 1 is below what would be required from a classical guitar freshman at a top school.)

For a classical equivalent see ABRSM, levels 1-8. Level 1 is for rank beginners. Level 8 is pre-req for college freshman (sort of). No improv of course.

I recommend Berklee books and online school.

[JonnyPac]

I'm primarily self-taught. I began almost 15 years ago and started
tackling jazz pretty soon thereafter. Youtube tutorials and online
resources were minimal in not nonexistent in the beginning for me.
I mainly applied myself at breaking down fretboard patterns, and figuring out
pieces of CD recordings.

I took a course in modern harmony with a local jazz pianist (though I
can't play piano whatsoever). I also read The Jazz Theory Book from
cover to cover in 2000. Those gave me a basic understanding of what was
going on in the progressions in classic jazz. Get the bookwork covered:
memorize the basic facts of theory. Develop melody, rhythm, and harmony equally if possible.

A good classic jazz music listening diet is very important. Don't just listen to guitar players!
Dig into the horn and piano side of jazz. The basics: Miles, Coltrane, Bill Evans, Monk,
Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Diz, Charlie Parker, Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, Sonny Rollins,
Jazz Messengers, McCoy Tyner, MJQ, Chet Baker, Cannonball, Eric Dolphy, and the like...
They all contributed to jazz as composers and improvisers. Pull elements from them that inspire you.

Be CREATIVE! No one wants to be another guitarist chunking out Autumn Leaves
and All the Things You Are with eyes glued to the old fakebook.
"Fakebook jazz" is ok for wine-tasting gigs and junior college chop-busting jams,
but it is usually played with nothing near the level of creativity that went on in the classic jazz era.

That said, it looks like you have a lot of good advise from the other members here,
and your list looks long and challenging. Best of luck, and remember... ENJOY yourself and others.

[bass2man]

ecohen:

You list looks like it would work for anyone wishing to learn play guitar...not just jazz...

Lots of good advice to get to the next level from folks here...

I would add some rhythm/timing/syncopation practice to this list...swing/latin/...5/4, 6/8, etc.

And of course try to play with other musicians...

Lastly, I would add RECORD yourself playing...you cant really replicate playing with other guys but playing with the recording light on "dials up the pressure" a notch to make the changes...dont cheat..play the melody, then a solo, then comp the chords, then the melody again..gives you good feedback on what you need to work on, rhythm, note choices or (like in my case) both ....

[harpwood_gr]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

1) LISTEN to as much jazz (from all eras) as you possibly can. Listen every day. Sing along with it.
2) TRANSCRIBE your favorite solos.
3) PLAY along with great jazz records. Learn the heads, the lyrics, and the chord progressions, and practice improvising over these.

Your list is heavy on the technical aspects of playing (which is also important), but to really play jazz you have to get it inside your ears as well as your fingers.

I could not say something more

LISTEN TO THE JAZZ MASTERS!!! LISTEN TO THE JAZZ MASTERS!!!
TRANSCRIBE!!!! TRANSCRIBE!!!!TRANSCRIBE!!!!TRANSCRIBE!!!!
PLAY ALONG WITH JAZZ MASTERS!!! PLAY ALONG WITH BACKING TRACKS

[ecohen]

Thank you for all the advice. I should make one thing clear - before 18 months ago I had never picked up a guitar or read music since I was 12. My purpose in first focusing on the technical skills was to have a tool set to use so that transcribing what I hear would be that much easier (I don't have to spend time figuring out how to play a chord, but can instead focus on which one sounds best). It was well worth the year as I can now enjoy playing what I hear instead of being frustrated over not being able to find a note or chord.

To that end, here's where I'm going next now that the technical part is over:

Continue learning standards from lead sheets (learning the melody, chords, different inversions, comping etc)

Next I play to focus a lot of rythm, timing, syncopation. I can quickly copy what I hear but not easily start up without hearing it first.

As my goal is solo guitar/chord melody, more listening and transcribing (Joe Pass, etc).

[jokron]

Originally Posted by ecohen

As my goal is solo guitar/chord melody, more listening and transcribing (Joe Pass, etc).

Well, guess you have the Joe Pass DVD "Solo Jazz Guitar" where Joe does amazing things with the 1-6-2-5 chord sequence, if you don't have it, get it, look at the beginning of the DVD here:

YouTube - Joe Pass - Solo Jazz Guitar

Listening and transcribing sounds good, but don't forget to do your own chordmelodies from scratch:

1. Play the chords mith melody on top
2. Develop a good bass line, listen to where the bass line wants to go, don't just play tones in the chord, chromatics is good here and there
3. Try to find chord substitutions to the bass lines
4. Put in some single lines here and there

You're going to learn a lot from doing your own chord melodies...more learning by doing than learning by copying...

Good luck!

Jokron

[OldGuitarPlayer]

Wow! You are way beyond me in terms of theory (and probably technique). I am also trying to learn this stuff myself. If you want to make music a career as a studio player or player "for hire" than sight reading is essential. You mentioned you are working on that and that's good. I certainly cannot sight read well. I prefer to listen to tunes and pick out the melody as well as having the score (Real Book etc..) or tab for reference.

I agree with the folks who stress learning tunes. My whole reason for trying to play jazz is not to be the next Joe Pass or Wes but to be able to at least accompany myself or others (groups or vocalists) on many of the standard tunes and also of course for my own satisfaction & interest. I would also like to learn more about how to play swing or big band style guitar because I love playing rhythm, I am also very much interested in chord melody too.

Since I have joined this forum I have learned a lot and found many good resources!

[ecohen]

Originally Posted by jokron

Well, guess you have the Joe Pass DVD "Solo Jazz Guitar" where Joe does amazing things with the 1-6-2-5 chord sequence, if you don't have it, get it, look at the beginning of the DVD here:

YouTube - Joe Pass - Solo Jazz Guitar

Listening and transcribing sounds good, but don't forget to do your own chordmelodies from scratch:

1. Play the chords mith melody on top
2. Develop a good bass line, listen to where the bass line wants to go, don't just play tones in the chord, chromatics is good here and there
3. Try to find chord substitutions to the bass lines
4. Put in some single lines here and there

You're going to learn a lot from doing your own chord melodies...more learning by doing than learning by copying...

Good luck!

Jokron

I have the Joe Pass DVD but had forgotten about it. I'm going to try that. I have been trying my own chord melodies. They are somewhat basic in that I start by putting the melody on top of the chords as written out in the lead sheet, then trying substitutions. But I'm enjoying the process. I'm still having trouble making the bass lines really stand out and a lot of trouble throwing in improvised single lines. To work on that, I'm just listening to Joe Pass and the like as much as possible and starting to take a lesson every other month or so to get pass hurdles.

I'll write down some of my chord-melodies as I'd love a critique if anyone has time.