Route to Jazz?

[jdazey]

I just logged in and found a gentle reminder that forums work when members contribute something. Here goes:

I'm just getting started with guitar. In eight lessons, I've gotten some chords and fingerpicking down to the point where I starting to learn a song. I've got Jodi Fisher's book, and he says having some familiarity with improvising over rock or blues is helpful to learing jazz. Do you think I need to put the time into blues or should I go directly to jazz?

Despite being old and slow, I'm trying to get to a point where I can play some instrumental (don't sing), solo (no group) fingerpicking jazz tunes for personal enjoyment. If I'm way off track here, let me know.

Joe

[Stackabones]

I'd put more time into first learning jazz songs rather than first learning how to improvise.

Blues is a great to place to start with learning songs or improvising. Take a jazz blues like Watermelon Man or Chitlins Con Carne or C Jam Blues, learn the melody and chords, and then learn how to improvise later. Most folks learning how to improvise start by learning a minor pentatonic scale to get the fingers moving. But first things first -- learn the tunes. The tunes have melodies that can be later used for improvisation.

[mr. beaumont]

'bones' advice is spot on. If you want to play jazz, play jazz--learn songs--start with these easier ones, and start learning your chords--they're gonna be your best friend when you start improvising. Like he said, blues tunes are great because they're not too hard. It definitely wouldn't hurt to try out some pentatonic playing over a three chord blues to get a feel for "spontaneus composing" (improv) before you start looking at wild chord changes...

My guess is Fisher's comment was more aimed at folks who have been playing for a while and are coming to jazz...

Mind you, a lot of the greats did log plenty of hours playing blues or pop music before they really broke into jazz--but pop music was a little more sophisticated (and "jazzy") in the 30's and 40's as well!

[jdazey]

Thanks for the suggestions. I really liked Howard Roberts version of Watermelon Man. I'll have to look up the other two, but this is the kind of thing I was looking for.

Learning scales, chords and progressions is fine, I'm glad to put in the time, but I'm really ready to learn some songs

Joe

[Dad3353]

Originally Posted by jdazey

...Despite being old and slow, I'm trying to get to a point where I can play some instrumental (don't sing), solo (no group) fingerpicking jazz tunes for personal enjoyment. If I'm way off track here, let me know...

Good evening, Joe...
...and belated welcome to the forum.
Old? All is relative, but there are many of us here that are starting, starting again or trying to catch up in later years. Slow? No way..! I've been 40-odd years getting to where you seem to be in a few months..! Keep at it, you seem to be completely on the right track; personal enjoyment is the name of the game for most players on the planet, and what makes (for me, at least...) this forum so great. The debates, help and counselling from the more experienced is invaluable, but all have their place here. Please keep us posted on progress.

[docbop]

After you get a few basic tunes down try learning a Charlie Parker tune. You should not try to play it at tempo. but the heads of Parker tunes are full of great lines and look at how he embellishes chord tones.

[ksjazzguitar]

Originally Posted by jdazey

...Do you think I need to put the time into blues or should I go directly to jazz? ...

I don't think that you need to learn blues blues to get into jazz, but jazz blues is a great place to start.

True, you can use some blues blues licks in jazz. But I find that people who come from blues (like I did) tend to rely on them too much in the beginning. And they tend to absorb the "just play this scale over all the chords" logic from rock and blues that can be a hindrance to your jazz understanding (IMHO.)

I see nothing wrong with going straight to jazz and jazz blues. You will absorb some of the cliches borrowed from blues blues as you go.

But it does work the other way too, I just think it comes with a little baggage.

Peace,
Kevin

[Reg]

Post what players you like or tunes and I can very simply tell you what you need to learn...Best Reg

[jdazey]

Well, I'll start with Martin Taylor, Larry Coryell, and Laurindo Almeida. I've seen Larry Coryell several times, once about 30 years ago, and Recently saw Martin Taylor in Seattle. I've never seen Laurindo Almeida, but I have several albums of his. I like his work on the LA4 album "Going Home". But I don't want to get too specific. I can see myself playing acoustic fingerstyle jazz standards/ballads/blues.

My guitar teacher is a former national flatpicking champion. He plays in a bunch of bands including jazz, country, and bluegrass. Right now I'm learning "Windy and Warm". I like the tune; it'll be fun. But I think they guy's heart is in bluegrass, and I don't want to get sidetracked for too long. I may need to guide him or perhaps find another teacher.

Boy, I don't know if this makes things clearer or not.
Joe

[Reg]

Hey Joe... great man, that will do perfectly, I know Larry, well not really, but I've had the pleasure of hanging at gigs... Taylors cool and I'll check out more of Almeida's style and make suggestions of what and how to approach, I have two gigs and have to split in a 1/2 hour, but I'm done pretty early so I'll try and post something later tonight , won't be until 1 or so, pacific coast time. Thanks again Reg

[bass2man]

Joe:

Learning jazz blues and Rhythm Changes progressions is a basis for a lot of jazz tunes..always good to speand some time on...

Learning Solo fingerstyle jazz guitar is a journey...along with what Reg, kevin and others suggest (these guys know their stuff and are so helpful...thanks guys!!!)...you may want to check out Robert Conti's Chord Melody Assembly line book.

The book lays out the basics on how to start playing this style..essentially chords with the melody note on top...so you can go to the real book and start figuring songs out by yourself. He goes through some chord subsitution ideas and inversions so you can grab the melody note on top as well....and it helps you learn a bunch of chords all over the fretboard.

I learned about a dozen songs this way...pretty slow going at first but gets easier as you figure out more songs..

It's not Martin Taylor by any means, more of a jazz chord with melody on top, but a good starting point IMHO....

Enjoy the journey...

[derek]

Route to jazz? Why Route 66 of course.

You have already gotten some fine advice. That is one of the great things about this place, always plenty willing to help. Good luck.

[gcb]

Try Grand Slam by Charlie Christian.

[jdazey]

Thanks, guys. That is a lot of good advice despite what I paid for it I'll be giving it a lot of thought as I move ahead. I'll follow up on the Robert Conti and Charlie Christian suggestions as well.

This is a great forum with the focus on the music. I appreciate that.
Joe

[ptrallan01]

Lots of good advice, thank you all. I learned to play guitar on the spot in church when we had few or no musicians. I had to learn on the fly, sometimes with people calling out the chords to me as they changed. It may not have been the best way but it did do a few things for me. 1 I played with someone else from the beginning in a very forgiving environment. 2 I had to respond in time. This helped me to play through even when I make mistakes. Playing alone I stop fix the mistake and some songs take a long time to learn because I keep making the same mistake.

If possible play with someone else as soon as possible. It will teach/force you to make certain mental adjustments that will help you develop. Plus its fun!

[donojazz62220]

Don't forget to use YouTube as a learning device. There are some great instructional materiels there. Search on Frank Vignola, Fred Hamilton, Corey Christiansen, or Jazz Lessons and see what you find.

Go luck on the journey...

jd