Kurt Rosenwinkel-Biggie Smalls

Rayne · #1 07-19-2010, 02:23 PM

Greetings fellow jazz cats. I'm basically new here, i've been reading the forum for a while (some great stuff on here) but I just decided to register. So there's my intro, now my question(s). I read somewhere that Kurt Rosenwinkel cited the The Notorious B.I.G. as an influence. For the most part i've never really listened to any actual rap/hip hop, but when I saw that Kurt, one of my great influences, did, I decided to jump in with an open mind. I'm really surprised that I'm actually enjoying this music. So my question is: what do you jazzers think of the rap/hip hop scene in relation to Jazz? Also, how do you think this kind of music could influence a jazz player?

Sorry if it's kind of long, but thanks for reading!

mr. beaumont · #2 07-19-2010, 03:01 PM

I love rap/hip hop

The rhythms, the vocal improvisation (freestyle), the awesome old samples...I'd love to do some work with a DJ.

patskywriter · #3 07-19-2010, 03:45 PM

there's some good stuff out there, but it would be difficult for a kid to explore the various directions of rap/hip hop. the 'common denominator' of what's played on the radio is not very intelligent sounding, challenging, interesting, or even musical (at least on k97.5 in this area). and the language and much of the subject matter is atrocious. whenever i play rap/hip hop (as a DJ) i play old-school and hip hop from other countries like morocco, south africa, brazil, and japan. commercial american rap/hip hop has had almost all of the music stripped from it.

brad4d8 · #4 07-19-2010, 04:26 PM

Somebody once complained to Charles Ives about the rattle and clap that was ragtime. He replied something to the effect that just as with any other kind of music, that part of ragtime that was good would survive and the rest would disappear into obscurity. Rap, Hip-Hop, Rock, Jazz, Contemporary Art Music, all are subject to this dictum, IMO.
Similarly, somebody supposedly once told Ray Bradbury that 90% of Science Fiction was BullSpit. He agreed, but pointed out that 90% of just about everything was Bullspit.
The problem as I see it is that often it is the lowest common denominator that is popular and from the 90%, while the 10% is obscured.
Brad

Gambrosius1984 · #5 07-19-2010, 05:18 PM

Hip hop is awesome. Biggie was great. The problem for most people is they only hear that commercial rap, that is about bling and other garbage and using terrible over production and auto tune.

There is plenty of good stuff if you know where to find it. My older brother has been a hip hop producer/emcee for over a decade and I have been lucky enough to hear a lot of good underground stuff. It is also cool because i'll hear a cool Chet Baker intro or Bill Evans interlude and show him and he will cut it up and make a beat out of it.

I highly recommend Madlib's "Shades of Blue" on Blue Note. Very awesome stuff. Here some clips from it:
YouTube - Madlib - Stormy
YouTube - Madlib - Slim's Return
YouTube - Madlib - Distant Land
YouTube - Madlib - Footprints

djangoles · #6 07-19-2010, 07:15 PM

Don't forget about The Roots
The Roots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RonD · #7 07-19-2010, 08:31 PM

OK, help! I just don't get it! How is this Jazz? not criticizing, I just don't get it.
Can you give me more examples to listen to?
Thanks.

Rayne · #8 07-19-2010, 09:09 PM

Wow guys, thanks for the responses! To follow up on brad's response, I recently saw a video of Pat Metheny trashing Kenny G, and he says that "jazz like rock and roll, 95 percent of it really sucks" and that the 5 percent is amazing. I think this is an exaggeration, but it's certainly true.

robertm2000 · #9 07-19-2010, 10:29 PM

I suppose mixing genres can be interesting, and occasionally it works.

Gangstagrass | Lightning on the Strings, Thunder on the Mic feat. T.O.N.E-z | CD Baby

But...I think there are times that it doesn't work, and who knows just when that is?

RonD · #10 07-19-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertm2000

I suppose mixing genres can be interesting, and occasionally it works.

Gangstagrass | Lightning on the Strings, Thunder on the Mic feat. T.O.N.E-z | CD Baby

But...I think there are times that it doesn't work, and who knows just when that is?

Yikes!

randalljazz · #11 07-20-2010, 04:29 AM

(only positive opinions about rap or heavy metal tolerated on this forum--at peril of banishment.)

RonD · #12 07-20-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randalljazz

(only positive opinions about rap or heavy metal tolerated on this forum--at peril of banishment.)

I knew there was Jazz police, but...

Jazzaluk · #13 07-20-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonD

OK, help! I just don't get it! How is this Jazz? not criticizing, I just don't get it.
Can you give me more examples to listen to?
Thanks.

I actually do think you get it. It's not Jazz.

mr. beaumont · #14 07-20-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonD

OK, help! I just don't get it! How is this Jazz? not criticizing, I just don't get it.
Can you give me more examples to listen to?
Thanks.

No, it's not jazz--don't worry, you're not missing out on some inside scoop. But jazz musicians can be influenced by non-jazz music.

I personally am really influenced by country and western, reggae and dub, chicago gospel, R&B, hip hop, and experimental electronic music too.

And randall, it's okay not to like hip hop/rap. I just don't like it when people come out with the "this isn't music" arguement, or the even more prevalent, "If I don't like it, then it's crap" mentality. I've never seen you make any comments like that around here, so I don't put you in that category...

Metal Fingers · #15 07-20-2010, 01:56 PM

I think K.R said that in a tongue in cheek kind of way.it's like what doesn't influence you,you know.I think he probably means how he went from rags to riches by his own blood sweat and tears despite all adversity.He probably means hip hop as a culture.It has influenced many youths since the 90's...and to b straight I aint' talkin no radio-mtv b.s.Even though Biggie broke through on that level.

Jazzy hip hop try Digable Planets.It is more funk but they were some of the first to rap with a live band.Hip hop not unlike jazz needs to be sifted through to find the real good stuff.other older good stuff, Pharcyde,people under the stairs it goes on from there...chali @na raps with the band galactic and sometimes Ozomatli that is some cool stuff.

cosmic gumbo · #16 07-20-2010, 04:28 PM

If you listen to acid jazz, you hear that big fat groove, it might have a hip-hop beat, and if you pay attention, you could hear authentic New Orleans jazz funk drumming shining through. Charlie Hunter, Medeski, Martin, & Wood, Stanton Moore, John Ellis, John Scofield, and on and on. A big part of jazz history relies on a danceable groove. New Orleans, swing and soul jazz come to mind. It is real jazz.

Rap? Being a jazz lover who leans towards instrumental jazz, I can appreciate good rapping from someone Like Mos Def or Q-tip as much as any spoken word jazz, but it's not singing, it's a rhythmic thing. I don't enjoy it as much for the same reason I prefer jazz without vocals. No disrespect to all the killer jazz vocalists.

Is this Thelonious Monk tune still jazz? I think so.

YouTube Video

Jake Hanlon · #17 07-20-2010, 04:45 PM

There is a lot of great Hip Hop and Rap out there even in the more hardcore genres and underground scene. I'm a big fan of Mos Def for example, he's amazing.

In an Ethnomusical sense, Rap/Hiphop has taken over for the African American culture for what Blues and Jazz was earlier in the 20th century as a music that was created by Blacks for blacks dealing mostly with Black issues and then subsequently commercialized by the popular culture. Good music is good music.

Funny I was listening to an early DMX album the other day and thought, this is some clever stuff, with good beats and well produced. Even if the content was controversial I couldn't discount his belief in what he was trying to get across, lots of passion and fire. Different genre, same passion about Music, at least in the delivery.