Right Hand Picking Technique Questions.

adamreir · #1 02-21-2010, 08:31 PM

First: off topic.

Shouldn't there be a technique room in this forum? I would really say that technique is an essential part of playing/improvising jazz

Topic:

I've been struggling to develop faster right hand picking technique for the last couple of years, seems like I've come to a dead end, with all most no progression. Although I'm practicing with a metronome.

At firs I've kind of analyzed my whole right hand style, and wonder if some of the things I'm doing is not right, or if i should change some of the way I'm using my right hand.

Q1:

I talked to my old teacher the other day (he really isn't that good player), and he talked about something about not resting the palm of you're right hand on the strings (which I do). I'm not muting, just using the thicker strings as a kind of support/guide. I searched the Internet and found a guy writing how stupid this is.

Any experience on this?

Should i stop playing with my palm on the stings?

Q2:

When i started playing with a pick (about 3-4 years ago), i found out that holding you right hand in the right angle bu muscle power is really painful. So i found out that if i play with naked, the part of my right arm right below my elbow will stick to the side of the body of the guitar, and I can relax my shoulder.

Now i see a lot of players resting there hands on top of the guitar.

(This is Probably a stupid question, but) is my style of resting my right arm like, stopping my from developing speed?

(Sorry, I can really see that this is a nonsense question, but still, you never know).

-

Now, I know this is an issue for a lot of guitar players, and the answer for most of these metronome questions is that you got to find the way that works for you.. So I'm gonna write how I'm using the metronome for right hand speed developing. What do you think, how is this compared to your way of using the metronome? Any thoughts?

I use a metronome similar to this:

METRONOME ONLINE - free!

And when i speed up i usually just jump one or two metronome steps (like from 100bpm to 104 or 108bpm)

I have two ways of working, one really slow, and one reaching for my top speed.

1.
I start out at quarter notes at 50 bpm, and then repeat for abou 2 minutes, then rais the metronome speed by two steps (to 54 bpm), and repeat the paractice, then rais the speed to 58bpm. I do this untill i reach 100 bpm. As I rais the speed the exercise I'm working with takes shorter time, becous i do I't a set amount of times.

2.
I find my top speed (100%) at a certain exercise. Then i turn the metronome to about 50%, and then do the same as the exercise above. (beginning for about 2 minutes, then raising the speed two steps etc.).

Thank you for reading all this, thanks for any answers

Adam

Gabe2099 · #2 02-21-2010, 09:07 PM

Q1: i rest the edge of my palm on the 5th/6th strings and i also anchor my pinkie below the high E. the trick is knowing when to do it, if you want to pick fast, you'll have to practice picking with your hand floating above the strings...

Q2: i really don't get this question... it's something about playing guitar naked with the arm angled and shoulder relaxed

but if you mean resting your forearm on the upper bout of the guitar, i don't see how that could be a problem.

one tip i can share with you is this: you have to take at least 10 minutes (divided into 2 minutes or 1 minute cells) of just really fast, all you can give, crazy picking to push your forearm muscles. nothing to hurt yourself, of course, but kind of some 16ths at 140-160 bpm.

i do the same with the left hand, i do really fast trills with all fingers (1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 2-3. 2-4. 3-4) until i feel the burn. because you basically want your muscles to get used to it, it's somewhat like weight lifting...

PD: but you should use the metronome to pick cleanly and accurately, what i suggest is just something one can do to condition the forearm muscles and you won't do it forever. the metronome, on the other hand, is your new BFF

adamreir · #3 02-21-2010, 09:26 PM

Q1. So you lift you palm when you're speeding up? Always when practising picking technique?

Q2. No, what I mean is this: I find it more comfortable to play naked, is this bad? (just kidding, you understood)

Yeah, I used a similar left hand exercise, and It really boosted my left hand speed. Do you play with high pressure from your pick to the strings (Hi volume), or just at high speed? Does is burn in your right hand?
It sound's like something I could use, my main problem Isn't playing accurately. It's more that my right hand don't really has the ability to play really fast.

Thank you very much for your answers, really what I need now

Gabe2099 · #4 02-21-2010, 09:45 PM

Q1: when you're practicing, i would recommended floating your hand above the strings, yeah. after you have the speed, the palm and, in my case, the pinkie are just there for stability and precision.

Q2: as long as your bandmates don't have a problem, then it's ok

personally, i'd be too scared of an electric shock on parts that are not supposed to get shocked LOL

i just do high speed, really fast and from the wrist until i feel a slight burn. then i rest 30 secs/1 min and repeat a couple times. i used to do it a couple times, 2 or 3 days a week... now i just do it about once a week or every two weeks for about 5 minutes.

always remember to push yourself a little bit, if you always do what you are comfortable doing, you won't progress. good luck!

adamreir · #5 02-21-2010, 09:54 PM

Thank you, I've been looking for an exercise like this, but when you don't know what you're looking for it's like dancing in the dark (naked, in my case, lol).

*reaching for my guitar

adamreir · #6 02-21-2010, 09:55 PM

Oh, by the way, if anybody else has any thats about these topics, shoot

adamreir · #7 03-06-2010, 07:24 PM

Anybody else got an oppinion about anchoring you picking-hand-palm?

Further question: My top speed with my pick on one string/one pich is about 16th notes at about 120, so ill Stick to that. Em. How hard do you pick?

Anybody else got any tip on gaining speed with onenote picking?

JimBobWay · #8 03-06-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamreir

1.) Anybody else got an oppinion about anchoring you picking-hand-palm? & 2.)Anybody else got any tip on gaining speed with onenote picking?

1.) If you are resting your palm on the strings, you are both decreasing your picking effectiveness and adding muscular tension. I would only recommend that for pizzicato picking ala Al DiMeola, and then at the bridge. Try using your pinky as a rest/guide on the pickguard (this works best on archtops, Les Pauls, and similar pickguard configs) if you feel the need to support your wrist. Otherwise float it above the strings.
2.) Look to players you admire - chances are they have instructional material available. In this economy, they might even be open to some personal instruction! There is no one way, and everyone has different arms/wrists/etc. so find the way that works for you, then practice! As you have noted a metronome really helps (most people). Good luck and remember - '...speed is a means to an end.' - Hunter S. Thompson

derek · #9 03-08-2010, 11:01 AM

There are plenty of responses to this. Anchor the pink or float? There are world famous players who do both. Angle the pick downward or upward to the strings? Pick from the wrist or the elbow?

Study guy like Benson, Bruno, DeCaprio, Martino, just stay away from Metheny as he admits he has a crazy right hand. Watch vid of these guys. They all do it a bit different. It is about effiecency of movement, relaxation, and consistent practice.

fumblefingers · #10 03-28-2010, 10:56 AM

if you are looking to play fast alternate picking, watch the fast guys (Benson, and especially McLaughlin). Martino ain't slow but he's not particularly fast either. Bruno is very fast but he does not use alternate picking so much as "economy" picking. that would be a conscious choice that you would have to make. and then there are the gypsy players with their brand of powerful and fast picking.

Hugh · #11 03-28-2010, 12:15 PM

Have a look at some Joe Pass videos on youtube. You get a lot of close-ups of his right hand techique. You'll be surprised how well he can catch the strings concidering the way he holds his hand. I think sometimes if you spend too much time thinking about a problem, thats what it eventually becomes and you dont go any further in your playing. I've fallen into that trap before

Martin Tayor rests his pinky on the scratchplate and admits that its not recommended and it was the way he started so he's now stuck with it and cant play any other way.
The advantage in not resting on the pinky is that you can use it for picking spread out chords and thicken your sound. I read this in one of Joe's books I had years ago, and have used the pinky for this purpose ever since.
Hugh.

djangoles · #12 03-28-2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamreir

Anybody else got an oppinion about anchoring you picking-hand-palm?

Further question: My top speed with my pick on one string/one pich is about 16th notes at about 120, so ill Stick to that. Em. How hard do you pick?

Anybody else got any tip on gaining speed with onenote picking?

A couple of things that really helped me are....

1) Practice with a wide dynamic range and all different types of accents
2) Play with all downstrokes....

This I think will increase your speed much faster than just speeding up alternate strokes. I had a similar problem for many years where I rested my hand on the bridge but could never get 16th's above 120 cleanly. I did the above mentioned 2 things for a few weeks and my speed skyrocketed.

adamreir · #13 04-06-2010, 08:53 AM

Thanks guys

Why would playing all downstrokes help?

clarigit · #14 04-06-2010, 02:44 PM

I guess what I do might be wierd but what I do is keep contact with the strings by lightly rubbing my thumb against the lower strings , keep a loose wrist and move a fair amount with my elbow, with a loose shoulder.I know its right cause the under part of my thumb gets black from the strings. Worked immediately for me when I first tried it. Never liked the pinkie.

djangoles · #15 04-12-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamreir

Thanks guys

Why would playing all downstrokes help?

I should have said all downstrokes and all upstrokes. The faster you can get these and not tense up will get your speed up a few notches for sure.

Scrybe · #16 04-12-2010, 08:17 PM

At the risk of sounding terribly esoteric and hippyish....have you tried including some kind of breathing exercise into your scale playing? If your speed is maxed there's a good chance that you're tensing up, and if you're tensing up there's also a good chance you're not breathing or your breathing has changed when you tensed up. Try focusing on breathing comfortably at your max speed and see if this relaxes you any.

adamreir · #17 04-13-2010, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djangoles

I should have said all downstrokes and all upstrokes. The faster you can get these and not tense up will get your speed up a few notches for sure.

You mean alternate picking?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrybe

At the risk of sounding terribly esoteric and hippyish....have you tried including some kind of breathing exercise into your scale playing? If your speed is maxed there's a good chance that you're tensing up, and if you're tensing up there's also a good chance you're not breathing or your breathing has changed when you tensed up. Try focusing on breathing comfortably at your max speed and see if this relaxes you any.

Hm, haven't thaught about that... Guess you have a really good point there, thanks!

djangoles · #18 04-13-2010, 01:14 PM

[quote=adamreir;74930]You mean alternate picking?

Sorry I wasn't more clear....Play with all downstrokes only for a while, taking it to your max speed without tensing up. Think of a walking bass at a quick tempo. Then do the same with all upstrokes.

Basically it's equivalent to a drummer working with each hand independently to build up strength.