Tone Blocking a Guitar

JoeVague · #1 01-28-2010, 01:06 PM

Anyone here work with this aspect of producing a distenctive 'sound' or producing more tremble, midrange or base from a Guitar? Is there a site which represents this aspect well?

Met someone in Ca. longgg ago who does this adjustment on guitars, so I know its viable...and have done some work on my own as well.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #2 01-28-2010, 01:16 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should define your terms. My amp has "treble" "mid" and "bass" knobs.

JoeVague · #3 01-28-2010, 01:42 PM

The quality of any Jazz guitar still comes from the natural sustain and intonation of the acoustic variables FIRST... 'coloring' the playing of the instrument with electrical overtones does not compensate for this fact.

How the sound is transmitted throughout the body of the guitar for the resulting 'natural sound' of the guitar.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #4 01-28-2010, 01:52 PM

IS that the definition of "tone blocking"? It's vague, Joe.

mr. beaumont · #5 01-28-2010, 02:08 PM

are you asking how to best "block" the tone colorings of electronics and best capture the natural acoustic tone of the instrument?

condensor mic.

honestly, i still think of an archtop with pickups as an electric guitar, and I find some of the colorations of pickups, tone circuits, amplifiers, etc. as desirable.

derek · #6 01-28-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

are you asking how to best "block" the tone colorings of electronics and best capture the natural acoustic tone of the instrument?

condensor mic.

honestly, i still think of an archtop with pickups as an electric guitar, and I find some of the colorations of pickups, tone circuits, amplifiers, etc. as desirable.

Agreed. If you are talking about a guitar with a set humbucker that is laminate, the acoustic properties aren't especially important to the sound imo. The Sadowsky Jim Hall probably is one of the "best" sounding laminate archtops.

A solid wood archtop, like the L-5 or Heritage 575, with a humbuker is going to still have a decent acoustic sound, but the top is not going to vibrate as much with that big chunk of metal set into the top.

Maybe Jim could refine his question a bit more?

JoeVague · #7 02-06-2010, 02:31 PM

The AV of the soundboard ARE dependent on everything from air flow to wood density and porting...aging also makes a difference why?

By placing a simple bridge support under any laminated archtop, the tone will deepen, by proper placing of tone blocks and ports you can enhance sustain- not simple banging out of string to pickup. The escence of the soundboard to the string to the pickup is more than tension and tone....but there is a definite science to this and that is what I'm trying to find.

as: bracing: Guitar construction
combined with:
Strings, standing waves and harmonics
but including denisty and vibration ratios as well as related to the surface and string resonance reflection charastics.

ie: as noted in the construction bracing of a basic acoustic, alterations can redirect flow to the soundboard and acentuate or nullify certain tonal charistics....for one thing. There is someone in CA who I met used tuneing forks and blocks of all denisties, even drilled holes in electric bodies to produce the charistics wanted by the player....where is the science on this?...and it does make a difference or why not buy a Chinese basswood junker and just use a good amp to produce what sound?

Who thinks an EPI sounds like a Gibson? Some people do on U TUBE, but, If you listen, one has clarity charastics the other does not.

I'll muddle through and keep studying. I just thought there might be some guidelines out there. Not trying to be a jerk...but the few I have worked on have shown quite a difference in tonal charactor with the same pickups and amp.

JoeVague · #8 02-06-2010, 02:31 PM

The AV of the soundboard ARE dependent on everything from air flow to wood density and porting...aging also makes a difference why?

By placing a simple bridge support under any laminated archtop, the tone will deepen, by proper placing of tone blocks and ports you can enhance sustain- not simple banging out of string to pickup. The escence of the soundboard to the string to the pickup is more than tension and tone....but there is a definite science to this and that is what I'm trying to find.

as: bracing: Guitar construction http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/strings.html
combined with:
Strings, standing waves and harmonics: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/gu...n.html#bracing
but including denisty and vibration ratios as well as related to the surface and string resonance reflection charastics.

ie: as noted in the construction bracing of a basic acoustic, alterations can redirect flow to the soundboard and acentuate or nullify certain tonal charistics....for one thing. There is someone in CA who I met used tuneing forks and blocks of all denisties, even drilled holes in electric bodies to produce the charistics wanted by the player....where is the science on this?...and it does make a difference or why not buy a Chinese basswood junker and just use a good amp to produce what sound?

Who thinks an EPI sounds like a Gibson? Some people do on U TUBE, but, If you listen, one has clarity charastics the other does not.

I'll muddle through and keep studying. I just thought there might be some guidelines out there. Not trying to be a jerk...but the few I have worked on have shown quite a difference in tonal charactor with the same pickups and amp.

cosmic gumbo · #9 02-09-2010, 06:46 AM

Interesting...

derek · #10 02-09-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeVague

The AV of the soundboard ARE dependent on everything from air flow to wood density and porting...aging also makes a difference why?

By placing a simple bridge support under any laminated archtop, the tone will deepen, by proper placing of tone blocks and ports you can enhance sustain- not simple banging out of string to pickup. The escence of the soundboard to the string to the pickup is more than tension and tone....but there is a definite science to this and that is what I'm trying to find.

as: bracing: Guitar construction
combined with:
Strings, standing waves and harmonics
but including denisty and vibration ratios as well as related to the surface and string resonance reflection charastics.

ie: as noted in the construction bracing of a basic acoustic, alterations can redirect flow to the soundboard and acentuate or nullify certain tonal charistics....for one thing. There is someone in CA who I met used tuneing forks and blocks of all denisties, even drilled holes in electric bodies to produce the charistics wanted by the player....where is the science on this?...and it does make a difference or why not buy a Chinese basswood junker and just use a good amp to produce what sound?

Who thinks an EPI sounds like a Gibson? Some people do on U TUBE, but, If you listen, one has clarity charastics the other does not.

I'll muddle through and keep studying. I just thought there might be some guidelines out there. Not trying to be a jerk...but the few I have worked on have shown quite a difference in tonal charactor with the same pickups and amp.

I don't think anyone was suggesting you were being a jerk, your initial questioning was somewhat unclear. This post above certainly clarifies more what you are talking about. I have read some random stuff over the years that addresses this sort of thing. I do not have any scientific sites or references I can steer you toward, sorry.

I can say that anecdotally, I am not sure how much of the above matters in the big picture, but certainly some. I have played both laminated and solid wood guitars of the same exact model/maker side by side, and each one was distinct. The variables in just the tonal property of the woods is enough of a difference to mess with any formula.

The things you are mentioning above would certainly contribute to the overall sound, and like thickening or thinning the wood on a top, will influence tone and sustain. More extreme measures like drilling holes, or hollowing out chambers in solid bodies, is done all the time by a number of manufacturers, and I can certainly hear that difference.

This sort of stuff is where science and art meet in guitar making I think. I am a part of a monthly podcast called gearforguitars, as is one of our other members here, msr13 (Matt). Matt recently did an interview with Luthier James Patrick Eggle, and one of the questions was about wood removal of his tops and the idea of tap tuning. He basically said he didn't have a formula, but went by feel/sound.

Facinating area no doubt.

JoeVague · #11 02-09-2010, 03:38 PM

Thank you...

Luthier in CA used to use tunning forks on the body, etc. Darnest thing...but he could equal out the tonal qualities of any guitar...I simply thought there was some definite science to it...before string type, bridge type etc. to determine basic qualities as applied to the standard desired.

Yes, I understand the confusion as just changing out strings can effect the basic sound. Mixing string types and sizes can round out a sound as well..there are a lot of methods to consider.