How much do looks matter when it comes to your guitar?

[henryrobinett]

The look of the Guitar has zero relevance to me. It’s just a tool. I don’t need the way it looks to inspire to post at all. Not a tiny little bit. I just want something that plays well. I’m not even concerned with firs it sound good. I don’t know why. It seems like every Guitar I play sounds like me anyway.

It seems that the more external reasons you have for inspiration the further away you are from real inspiration.


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[Hep To The Jive]

[QUOTE=goldenwave77;810198]

It's not a question of "getting it". It's a question of what he's capable of saying. Tarantino is like a perpetual teenager, smirky and condescending. He can't risk authentic emotion, because he's afraid to try.

One more e.g. and I'll leave off. Consider Michael C. and Kay, his wife in Godfather II. She's an upper class WASP from a different world with different expectations and understandings, and she asks him, hopefully, whether he's killed someone.......and he lies to her, and she accepts the lie, and then later figures out what has happened. By the end of the movie, he shuts the door on her, literally and figuratively, as she leaves, and the message is authentic, and complete, and it works, dramatically. He asks his mother "Can a man lose his family (meaning his wife)" ? His mother is perplexed, and says "How can a man lose his family...?" It is beyond her comprehension, and that sums up the tragedy of he and Kay. His mother would not ask about the Don's business, but Kay needs to know, and understand, and will walk away... This is true to life: We think we know someone, and find out we really do not.

In Pulp Fiction, we get Tarantino himself who has 2 criminal characters show up on his doorstep. What do we get from Tarantino? A framed announcement---"The Bonnie Situation". The whole thing is played like a joke, because it is a joke. Yes, and Hitchcock inserted himself into his movies...how hip, but hollow and empty....that is what pure "style" gets you.

Miles D's solos didn't sound any better because he turned his back to the audience, but I'm sure a lot of people in the audience oohed and aahed, "How cool...." Again, pure style.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the Godfather, Tarantino and Coppola are not related in any way. And they are both great to me in their own way, with their own distinctive styles, separated by different era. It's like compare Renaissance with Modernism. Also, I don't need a 'message' from a movie, or some moral standing. I enjoy HOW more than WHAT.

Perpetual teenager sounds good though. I've been called that as well. I feel connected

[mr. beaumont]

Re: Reservoir Dogs

I always thought it was a (somewhat demented) comic book, come to life. All the characters are over the top and not "believable." That's why I enjoyed it.

Re: a guitar's looks: I'd tell you I don't care, but the fact is I find almost any guitar has some charm to it...and if a guitar plays and sounds great it automatically looks better to me (I thought teles were "boring" looking when I was a kid...then I played one)

[Hep To The Jive]

I think visual aspect does matter, but it's not just the guitar, it's everything. Dress style, shoes, haircut, shape... The colour of guitar matching the oufit... The whole artist mojo is sum of the parts.

[ESCC]

I believe some guitars are better than others for specific genres of music, but, the best guitar is the one you enjoy playing.

BIG +1 on the Cohen Bros.

[rlrhett]

I always get a chuckle when I see people be adamant, angry even, at the suggestion that anything but the purity of their music matters. "I'm so pure I'm see through, MAN! I could play a 2x4 strung with barbed wire and bailing twine!" To me that is just another aesthetic. A different way and place to get your inspiration. Just like turning your back on the audience because you are so pure you don't even want to let them in. Just like turning yourself into a junkie because you want to tap into Bird's purity. Grow your hair long. Shave it off. Spit on the audience. Dress in drag. Whatever.

I don't happen to share that aesthetic. Music doesn't come from an angry place for me. For some it does. Bully for them. For me music comes from a place of beauty, peace, fun, camaraderie, and craft. I don't need to suffer music to feel I am making something worthwhile and enjoyable. A beautiful guitar with impeccable craftsmanship inspires me, just like the virtuosity of other musicians, or a beautiful girl in the audience, or friends having a good time, or my own child, etc.

If a guitar inspires you, HURRAY! Lucky you. Get your inspiration however you want. If proving to yourself that you don't care about the guitar, or the audience, or the applause, or whatever, is what inspires you then by all means. I don't think I could ever be indifferent to the guitar. I've put more time into using them than any other object in my life.

I have a friend who is a high functioning autistic person. He happens also to be the most gifted guitar player I have ever met. However, he is actually and truly indifferent to music and guitars. He plays because everyone asks him to, but he has no idea why we think it is so great and amazing. He doesn't care what instrument he plays. Bass, guitar, ukulele, fiddle, banjo, mandolin. All the same to him. He is amazing at mimicking emotional playing (blues mostly), but he feels no emotion playing.

THAT is purity. And I wouldn't want to be him for all the amazing talent and ability he has.

[pcsanwald]

I think visual aspect does matter, but it's not just the guitar, it's everything. Dress style, shoes, haircut, shape... The colour of guitar matching the oufit... The whole artist mojo is sum of the parts.

This is certainly the case. I remember busking Europe as a young man, and we made infinitely more money with a upright bass, which no-one could usually hear that well anyways! the visual component of things is obviously huge, as much as I wish it weren't.

I read a book recently on the new music business by Ari Herstand, and he says again and again that video is the way things are going.

[PMB]

Oscar Wilde provocatively dealt with this whole issue in The Picture of Dorian Gray:

“People say sometimes that Beauty is superficial. That may be so. But at least it is not so superficial as Thought is. To me, Beauty is the wonder of wonders. It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances. The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible.”

[goldenwave77]

I always get a chuckle when I see people be adamant, angry even, at the suggestion that anything but the purity of their music matters. "I'm so pure I'm see through, MAN! I could play a 2x4 strung with barbed wire and bailing twine!" To me that is just another aesthetic. A different way and place to get your inspiration. Just like turning your back on the audience because you are so pure you don't even want to let them in. Just like turning yourself into a junkie because you want to tap into Bird's purity. Grow your hair long. Shave it off. Spit on the audience. Dress in drag. Whatever.


These are all just affectations....vanity presenting itself in different guises. The "pure" artist is the one who could walk into any club, pick up any guitar that was available, and do something good with it...I've seen clips of George Benson do this where he was called up to the bandstand, grabbed a solid-body, and started to play---and he sounded like George Benson, not some rock guy. Joe Pass' comment on what a good amp was...."one that worked" also comes to mind....zen-like indifference...does it stay in tune? reasonable action...decent clean tone...then good to go!

Why do good players get hired by music stores, or mfg's to be endorsers to play their instruments?! Because they sound good on them...and people will buy, because it's been demonstrated that its the Indian, not the arrow...even a lesser priced instrument can sound great.

A beautiful guitar with impeccable craftsmanship inspires me, just like the virtuosity of other musicians, or a beautiful girl in the audience, or friends having a good time, or my own child, etc.


I agree with this. In fact, I think musical instrument making is maybe the highest form of woodworking. (Maybe Japanese "puzzle box" houses that can be disassembled, and put back together with no nails, rank higher.)

Good instruments can be inspirational.



I have a friend who is a high functioning autistic person. He happens also to be the most gifted guitar player I have ever met. However, he is actually and truly indifferent to music and guitars. He plays because everyone asks him to, but he has no idea why we think it is so great and amazing. He doesn't care what instrument he plays. Bass, guitar, ukulele, fiddle, banjo, mandolin. All the same to him. He is amazing at mimicking emotional playing (blues mostly), but he feels no emotion playing.

THAT is purity.

I would argue that this is maybe "technique" triumphant. A bit eerie, in a way. Technique and virtuosity can be a trap.

Miles D. had his shortcomings, technically, as a horn player...his tone cracked, sometimes had trouble playing fast passages, or reaching high notes. Plenty of others could outblow him...but he is a great composer, in his improvisation.

Conversely, great improvisers have great taste...it seems to me. Kenny Burrell and Lee Morgan, for e.g., seem to hold everything together, and Burrell particularly never seems to play badly...he is either good, or very, very good. Dizzy can switch his conception, or "idea", in a flash, and pull it off, without a hitch.

Through all this, particular guitars don't matter much, it seems to me.


PS: The non-bolded passages in the above box are new comments, as well as the ones outside the box.

[henryrobinett]

I for one, don't get adamant, or angry about anything but the purity of my music. I'm only speaking for myself. And I'm not taking what was said personally, or thinking it was directed my way. I came in late and not caught up with the thread. For me, it's never been about the instrument. It's not even about guitar. FOR ME it's only about the music and trying to OVERCOME the guitar in order to get to the music. The guitar has some real barriers to overcome. Sure I like playing a great guitar. I have a couple. But since I got my working instruments I NEVER shop for more. Guitar is my workhorse. The instrument doesn't inspire me. It confounds me. I rarely get excited looking at a beautiful guitar. I never even desire to play one at the store or a friends house. Great. That's a beautiful guitar. But it's not my workhorse.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, or that I'm right. It's only right for myself.

[wolflen]

In principle zero, but in practice a lot. We are emotional beings us humans and we get inspired. There is a reason why our wives spend our fortunes decorating our houses

and speaking of practice..."our houses.." really.. are you familiar with the 10% rule on houses...??


10% of men kiss their wives good bye before leaving the house..


90% of men kiss their house goodbye before leaving their wives..

[wolflen]

I love cars..go to a car show..you will see "garage queens" they are never driven..they live in a museum..well it looks like a car..then you may see a 1955 chevy no-mad in a supermarket parking lot .. very clean but it may be a daily driver and grocery getter..but a few dings and a slight scrape and some signs of aging...Ill take the no-mad!!


When I first got my les paul classic (wine-red antique trim and 50's PAF pups) I was so careful of it..ten years later..it now has some chips and ware and tear..but its mine..it taught me how to play it high on the neck and use classical riffs in a jazz solo..its makes me laugh and cry..

Is it a "jazz guitar" .. well its a les paul..the creator of it played amazing things on it..beyond its time and catagory..today the list of players of all styles of music use it..its an instrument that musicians of all levels can play and recognize its ability

many have had and played an array of named guitars..its the ones that we feel connected to .. in a variety of ways..some hard to describe..but you know it when you feel it..(a custome shop strat that was going home with me..but the 6k price tag talked me out of it)

Chuck Loeb worked with a builder for several years refining his guitar that he played with the group FourPlay..Im glad he got to enjoy it and share the music with us..

[henryrobinett]

If the look of your guitar inspires you, that's a good enough reason to care. It's weird to me, as I don't care how my guitars look, and my prettiest guitar is the one I like playing the least.

But there is one point I think is important on this topic: I, and most jazz guitarists I know, play differently on different styles of guitar. Things like sustain, feedback, attack, feel, response, etc affect what and how we play. The overwhelming conventional wisdom that the pinnacle of jazz guitar is a big carved archtop seems to keep many players in that one zone. Thanks to Bickert for breaking the mold, but most of the modern players use things other than archtops, and even the few that do (eg Kreisberg or Lund or GHex) use a lot of processing which changes the sound. A Strat might just be the instrument on which your jazz guitar playing is destined to thrive, and if you are blinded by the need to play an archtop you might miss out.

It’s funny. On all of my gigs I play at least one thing be per set in my Strat. Each time I do it’s like I never played anything on my Gibson. People post photos of the gig in Facebook and invariably it’s in the One Song per set I played in the Strat. Why? I shred some crazy, outside very fast stuff. Even people who aren’t jazz fan dig it. I do too, but I like playing straight ahead jazz too. More so obviously. But One Song a set is enough to break up the bop monotony.


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[Petros]

Such wonderful responses to such a simple question. Very inspiring.

There's apparently a wide continuum for the value of the look of one's guitar that goes from almost no concern all the way to it being just as important as the music.

I have to admit I don't think I could ever understand how the look of an instrument (or the musician) could be just as important as the sound, at least with jazz. Unless in a scenario where there's a lot of judging of two musicians and all their abilities are equal but one has a better looking instrument than the other, or perhaps one somehow says jazz more than the other, if that is possible through appearances, but that's my point.

After reading some of the above, I think I have a deeper issue: Fear of judgement. The whispering of negative comments directed at someone who thinks he's playing jazz on a strat that has a blocked Floyd Rose bridge. Loser! In the back of my mind I keep thinking it's a handicap if you play jazz and your guitar doesn't look the part. But like I said in my original post, I know there's no such thing as a "jazz guitar." It's an illusion! But then it's not an illusion on the socio-cultural level, and that's why I think the responses above illustrate wide differences of opinion on the importance of the appearance of your guitar(s).

[Jazzstdnt]

The look of the Guitar has zero relevance to me. It’s just a tool. I don’t need the way it looks to inspire to post at all. Not a tiny little bit. I just want something that plays well. I’m not even concerned with firs it sound good. I don’t know why. It seems like every Guitar I play sounds like me anyway.

It seems that the more external reasons you have for inspiration the further away you are from real inspiration.


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In all sincerity, no one has any reason to doubt you on this point Henry - but - your website is full of those super awesome pics of your ES-355 or whatever it is.

And yes, I'll have one of those any day of the week, haha.

[henryrobinett]

Ah. You’ll never get rid of critics. I just always push that envelop. I remember years ago, with my band, playing rhythm-a-ning on a strat with over drive. My crowd loved it because they knew me, but some guests couldn’t take it. Even though I played it with bopish language, you have old guard, brittle guys who can’t take change. You just have to steel yourself and do it your way.


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[henryrobinett]

In all sincerity, no one has any reason to doubt you on this point Henry - but - your website is full of those super awesome pics of your ES-355 or whatever it is.

And yes, I'll have one of those any day of the week, haha.

Yeah, but seriously, you should really see that guitar. 355, but it’s completely trashed. Anyone else wouldn’t be able to play that. I’m too embarrassed to let anyone play it. The few times I’ve taken it to the “shop” I have to apologize. It’s a mess. I’d play much better if I either had a better instrument or it was set up better. But I can’t let it go that long.


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[Jazzstdnt]

Ouch. Yeah I hear ya. I think having two of the same type is a good idea. (Semi-hollow, archtop, nylon string, acoustic, whatever).

More expensive of course, but a good idea. Your "plan B" backup when the starting player gets injured.

[henryrobinett]

I have to get another A Guitar. It’s time. I had a student buy a new 355. It was cool. I played it for a minute. I could play that. Lol. It felt good. I just don’t hunt for guitars. Ever. Lol.


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[Lobomov]

There is also that study that showes people being able to pick out musical contest winner by looks alone

Are classical music competitions judged on looks?

[plasticpigeon]

Why wouldn't you be attracted to and inspired by beautiful things, it's pretty natural.

[henryrobinett]

It is natural. But it doesn’t inspire me to play.


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[henryrobinett]

The beauty of music inspires me to play.


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[henryrobinett]

I think people can get caught up in the image of things. Maybe the status of things, or ourselves. As if HAVING this or that, alters how we think others will view us, or how we view ourselves. That's OK. Having a great car, house, clothes, guitars might mean something. I have some nice things, but those things aren't my motivation. The work is the motivation in itself, for me. I'd like to show off the results of my work. I do. But my sense of worth, in music, is tied up in my ability to play, not in the instruments I play. That's me, for further clarification.

[Jazzstdnt]

I have some nice guitars, and they inspire me to pick them up.

However, I play the ones that sound and feel the best, while some of the others tend to sit in their cases.

Once I start playing I can't really see much of the guitar anyway, I'm focusing on making great sounds. I get what Henry is saying.