Jazz & Marijuana:

[Dark Star]

There's no denying the place grass has in jazz history. Some even go so far as to say that marijuana use is responsible for jazz. So what's your take on it?

[mr. beaumont]

I voted never.

I don't care what the greats did or didn't do, there's nothing more irritating than playing jazz with someone who's high. They think they've reached this new level of conciousness...truth is, they only listen to themselves.

[TruthHertz]

Whatever it takes for you to feel cool about smoking weed. But in my take on reality, the music, the sociology, the city, the company, the ostracizing, the dance beat and swing are what made it. Marijuana was a small but pleasant passenger on that great train.
That's like saying racist police beatings were a regular part of the history of jazz so it's responsible for jazz. On both these points I vote nay.
David

[raylinds]

A lot of players also did heroin, maybe I should do that so I can play like Bird.

[ronjazz]

As in all things, drug use and its effects depend entirely on the individual. Certainly the actual use of drugs is far less harmful than the results of making it all illegal. But, having been involved in jazz at its highest levels over the past 4 decades, I think that marijuana use is the least of any player's problems. The biggest problem of abuse in the music industry comes from the legal substance, booze.

[Patrick2]

Back in the early 1970s, the great radio talk show host Bob Grant, from the NYC market answered a question from a caller . . "Bob, have you ever smoked grass?" . . Bob's response was instrumental in my decision to eventually quite smoking pot . . . "Life is too short for any mind altering substances. You will never get back the times you lived outside of yourself by being high or stoned or what ever it is that you kids call it."

[SearchForMeaning]

Originally Posted by raylinds

A lot of players also did heroin, maybe I should do that so I can play like Bird.

Ha! And I've been trying to play like Lee Morgan and I imitate everything about him but his music- so far I haven't found a girlfriend crazy about me enough to shoot me on the bandstand. I spend so much time looking though, that I have no time to practice.

[mangotango]

Don't do drugs. Never have. Never will. End of.

[Laro]

The only valuable dope is music...

[fep]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

As in all things, drug use and its effects depend entirely on the individual. Certainly the actual use of drugs is far less harmful than the results of making it all illegal. But, having been involved in jazz at its highest levels over the past 4 decades, I think that marijuana use is the least of any player's problems. The biggest problem of abuse in the music industry comes from the legal substance, booze.

+1

I don't use it, except I'd use it after chemo but I prefer to take it in a pill. Smoking, that's got to be nasty for ones health.

Regardless, I think it should be legal.

[jazzbow]

I hate it when musicians smoke puff! As a bass player 30 years back I was in three different bands at the same time. The pop rock band guitarists smoked it, they would take 30 minutes or more to tune up, and then play f***ing Freebird (they were too stoned to play sultans of swing, a blessing)! The punk band was beer friendly, great for thrashing around, great fun but totally unproductive. The songwriting/recording band was smokey and beery and boring.
Good music with swing and swagger takes your mind, spirit and body. If you're really lucky all three at the same time. Drugs dull the senses and if someone tries to tell you otherwise they are lying to you and lying to themselves.

[ESCC]

My drug of choice is scotch, I don't partake in anything harder or illegal.

I admit it, I enjoy that One Drink! The first drink is pleasurable, I find it soothing and it does make me a little less inhibited in my playing (among other things). If I have a second drink, my playing tends to get a little sloppy and I find I'm slightly less focused - to my way of thinking that's not creative or productive. So I know my limit and respect it. I do like that one scotch, or that one beer, or that one cup of coffee, or that one . . .

[wizard3739]

IMHO, there is no positive musical influence from taking drugs or alcohol. Over the past 50 years, I have lost many good friends, some who were great musicians, and many who were not. The result was the same for both, usually an early, pointless death.

wiz

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

No -- you're operating an amp and that's heavy machinery!

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, for the record, I have no problem with it...I just don't want to play with people who are high, on anything (including life, those folks are annoying with all their "happy this, happy that" business)

[AleikhBaba]

strictly speaking from personal experience, I have found that hitting that occasional spliff can provide remarkable insights into analyzing the physical and mechanical aspects of playing. It may or may not facilitate physical relaxation, but it certainly does provide a calm objective viewpoint from which to evaluate the working of the body in relation to the instrument. In that head-space I often work with certain forms that I have trouble executing on the guitar, in order to accurately pinpoint what the points of concern are in relation to picking technique, fingering, posture etc. And I say this with some hesitation, but sometimes it has cleaned out my ears and surprisingly allowed for clarity of perception.

On the downside, sight-reading and transcribing are the wrong things to try out when under the influence of cannabis, chances are you'd waste time not getting much done. Similarly one might in a moment of inspiration come up with a cool melody, head or riff, but arranging and orchestrating it stoned; is rough.

That said, I don't smoke before gigs AND/or when rehearsing with other musicians in a professional capacity. As Mr. Beaumont pointed in the very first post, I have seen a few talented musicians play pretty senseless stuff when high/stoned. It's very easy to get carried away, noodling into oblivion. To some extent it isolates the person, and hence they often stop listening to others (and this can lead to disastrous, embarrassing and downright hilarious musical moments).

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice one makes, and ideally shouldn't factor in to the music. It's not for everyone and it takes a significant degree of self-discipline to maintain a "controlled" habit.

[Dad3353]

Been there, seen what it does (and lost more than a few friends and family who went too far...). Never found it to be of any 'help' (I'm a drummer...). The only reason that it should be kept illegal, though, is reggae, imho. God, it's painful to have to sit through (whether they're 'high' or not...)!
No (or very little...) use musically, but socially acceptable if respected. Not suitable for those with 'other' problems, as there are no solutions in there.

[Stevebol]

I get busted for everything so no, never. Don't really miss it either.

[AmundLauritzen]

I'd rather work with a stoned musician than a drunk musician any day.

[Buster Loaf]

Ayahuasca

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by mangotango

Don't do drugs. Never have. Never will. End of.

I was raised in a very strict family. Nobody (talking grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins - NOBODY) drank a beer; two were smokers. Liquor was unheard of. Drugs weren't a possibility - we'd never even seen any.

I always said, "Don't do drugs. Never have. Never will."

Then I had a nervous breakdown at age 31, became suicidally depressed, lost everything I had. And worst of all, my family then began to ostracize me, and my family doesn't have "emotional problems" -- so there was no talking about it.

I couldn't go on, but I had to. I had to, but I couldn't. Someone said, "This will help." I said, "Screw you." After a month, things were ten times as bad. "This will help." "Give me it," I said. AND IT WORKED!!! I could cope. Back to work, family so proud, money money money money... yeah!

No, it wasn't pot - it was cocaine. It was a great temporary fix, but within another year, there was ZERO left of me.

Saying you don't and never will is the height of arrogance. I've been there, said that -- and I've been on the bottom, with scores of other formerly arrogant people who said the same thing. Truth is, you don't know what lies just around the next curve. You know what you'll do and what you won't, as long as things keep going okay. But that's all you know. Look at a homeless guy sleeping in a box. In a year, that could easily be you.

I don't mean to upset anyone for the sake of it. But to wake someone, it's worth it. Saying, "It'll never happen to me," is symptomatic of living in a dream world, and I say that with all due respect. Don't say such things. You are human, and humans malfunction.

kj

[raylinds]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

I was raised in a very strict family. Nobody (talking grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins - NOBODY) drank a beer; two were smokers. Liquor was unheard of. Drugs weren't a possibility - we'd never even seen any.

I always said, "Don't do drugs. Never have. Never will."

Then I had a nervous breakdown at age 31, became suicidally depressed, lost everything I had. And worst of all, my family then began to ostracize me, and my family doesn't have "emotional problems" -- so there was no talking about it.

I couldn't go on, but I had to. I had to, but I couldn't. Someone said, "This will help." I said, "Screw you." After a month, things were ten times as bad. "This will help." "Give me it," I said. AND IT WORKED!!! I could cope. Back to work, family so proud, money money money money... yeah!

Saying you don't and never will is the height of arrogance. I've been there, said that -- and I've been on the bottom, with scores of other formerly arrogant people who said the same thing. Truth is, you don't know what lies just around the next curve. You know what you'll do and what you won't, as long as things keep going okay. But that's all you know. Look at a homeless guy sleeping in a box. In a year, that could easily be you.

I don't mean to upset anyone for the sake of it. But to wake someone, it's worth it. Saying, "It'll never happen to me," is symptomatic of living in a dream world, and I say that with all due respect. Don't say such things. You are human, and humans malfunction.

kj

So, are you saying pot cures emotional problems?

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

I was raised in a very strict family. Nobody (talking grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins - NOBODY) drank a beer; two were smokers. Liquor was unheard of. Drugs weren't a possibility - we'd never even seen any.

I always said, "Don't do drugs. Never have. Never will."

Then I had a nervous breakdown at age 31, became suicidally depressed, lost everything I had. And worst of all, my family then began to ostracize me, and my family doesn't have "emotional problems" -- so there was no talking about it.

I couldn't go on, but I had to. I had to, but I couldn't. Someone said, "This will help." I said, "Screw you." After a month, things were ten times as bad. "This will help." "Give me it," I said. AND IT WORKED!!! I could cope. Back to work, family so proud, money money money money... yeah!

Saying you don't and never will is the height of arrogance. I've been there, said that -- and I've been on the bottom, with scores of other formerly arrogant people who said the same thing. Truth is, you don't know what lies just around the next curve. You know what you'll do and what you won't, as long as things keep going okay. But that's all you know. Look at a homeless guy sleeping in a box. In a year, that could easily be you.

I don't mean to upset anyone for the sake of it. But to wake someone, it's worth it. Saying, "It'll never happen to me," is symptomatic of living in a dream world, and I say that with all due respect. Don't say such things. You are human, and humans malfunction.

kj

Height of arrogance? I'd probably be better off leaving this one alone, but I can't. First of all, I feel for you and the problems you went through. We're all human and falible. I'm also hopeful that you have fully returned to good mental and emotional stability and if so I commend you for it.

However, your recall of the events that happened in your life are in no way indicative that others would not be able to manage their situation differently, and dare I say better. There are those of us, myself included first and foremost, that have adequate inner strength to be able to claim . . . "Never have and never will" and mean it and achieve it. That holds true in all walks of life, not just drugs. It's a matter of choices. When I chose to do drugs, it was my choice. When I chose to never do drugs (recreationally) ever again in my life (late '70s) it was my choice . . . and I never will again . . .ever!!

Those choices are ours to make. You chose to resort to drugs as an escape or a crutch. Others might not have, because they choose not to. It's totally presumptious to say that just because it happened to you, it can happen to anyone.

Saying "It'll never happen to me". is not at all "symptomatic of living in a dream world", as you concluded it is. It's a resolute statement of maturity and intellegence. You implore those of us who read your post to "never say such things". Why, just because you fell short of the strength needed to honor that committment to yourself? The only arrogance I detect is the attitude of . . . "if it happened to me it could happen to anyone". Why is that? Do you presume that we all suffer the same flaws and deficiencies that allowed you to take the actions you took.

I agree that we don't know what lies around the next curve, as you say. Some of those things are absolutely beyond our control. What is NOT beyond our control, are the day to day choices we make in dealing in dealing with adversities. We and we alone control those choices.

I did not intend for this post to sound as harsh as it will read. But, I don't really care to sugar coat my feelings on this matter. I mean you no insult or disrespect.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by raylinds

So, are you saying pot cures emotional problems?

No. My bad - I somehow deleted the most important line of the post. It's in boldface now.

Sorry about that, Ray.

[Dark Star]

Originally Posted by wizard3739

IMHO, there is no positive musical influence from taking drugs or alcohol. Over the past 50 years, I have lost many good friends, some who were great musicians, and many who were not. The result was the same for both, usually an early, pointless death.

wiz

You've had friends die from marijuana?

[Jazzpunk]

I don't smoke but I don't have a problem with others doing so as long as they can still function.

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

There are those of us, myself included first and foremost, that have adequate inner strength to be able to claim . . . "Never have and never will" and mean it and achieve it.

This is clearly written by someone who hasn't the first clue about addiction.

[Dark Star]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I voted never.

I don't care what the greats did or didn't do, there's nothing more irritating than playing jazz with someone who's high. They think they've reached this new level of conciousness...truth is, they only listen to themselves.

Like Satchmo. That guy sucked!!!

[Buster Loaf]

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Dark Star

Like Satchmo. That guy sucked!!!

When you can play like Satch, you get your pass.

Although, Armstrong's recording's really are the "Satchmo show." The backing band may as well have been canned. I'm talking about playing WITH a musician, not on top of them.