7th Chord Triad Pairs - from Matt Warnock's Guitar Newsletter

[JazzReggie]

Matt Warnock's newsletter this week talks about triad pairs. Quite interesting, and I'm enjoying the results of trying it out. I have a theory question about it though: For the Mixolydian triad pairs, we have root, 3rd, 5th then 9th, 11th and 13th. Why have we specified Mixolydian if we don't include the 7th? It could just as easily be a major scale, in which case, the same triad pair ideas could be used over a major 7th chord.

I hope it's okay that I posted this here, I figure other members might get something out of the discussion too.

[JohnW400]

Are you talking about Dmi over C? Without the 7th it is indeed ambiguous. However since a Ma11 is not a common chord I think most would call it dominant.

Triad pairs are great. I have to get back into them. I used to do a bunch of things with them like join them with a seventh . In this case C E G B or Bb then D F A.

A few of my favorites are F#/C, A/C Bb/C

C E G Bb C# F# A# C
C E G Bb C# E A C
C E G Bb D F Bb C

just think of all the new work you can make for youself when you consider all 5 triads and mixing them up

[JazzReggie]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

Are you talking about Dmi over C? Without the 7th it is indeed ambiguous. However since a Ma11 is not a common chord I think most would call it dominant.

Triad pairs are great. I have to get back into them. I used to do a bunch of things with them like join them with a seventh . In this case C E G B or Bb then D F A.

A few of my favorites are F#/C, A/C Bb/C

C E G Bb C# F# A# C
C E G Bb C# E A C
C E G Bb D F Bb C

just think of all the new work you can make for youself when you consider all 5 triads and mixing them up

Yes, just like Dm over C (his example is Am over G). I should have given a bit more context - the motivation for the article is to add some variety in playing over a dominant 7th chord, rather than just use the Mixolydian scale.

Perhaps my question would be better phrased like this - shouldn't these triad pairs and the sample lick using them work just as well over a major 7th as they would over a dominant 7th, even just a plain major chord?

[JohnW400]

yes they do. some more than others (D over C ).

It's just that the natural 11th in a Cma7 th is not the first choice for most. People tend to like the #11th on major chords

[JazzReggie]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

yes they do. some more than others (D over C ).

It's just that the natural 11th in a Cma7 th is not the first choice for most. People tend to like the #11th on major chords

Hrm, by "some more than others", are you saying these triad pairs will work in some keys better than others? Uh-oh, I sense a rabbit hole looming here somewhere!

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

yes they do. some more than others (D over C ).

It's just that the natural 11th in a Cma7 th is not the first choice for most. People tend to like the #11th on major chords

Yes, to phrase it another way, natural 11th over C7 is a bit more of a conventional sound (fitting in with the dominant/mixolydian) than over a Cmaj7. I think part of this triad pair is that it's a little evocative of a 7sus4 sound.

[JohnW400]

I 'avoid' using the term avoid notes. Back int he 70's I played in a free jazz group . No avoid notes there

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

I 'avoid' using the term avoid notes. Back int he 70's I played in a free jazz group . No avoid notes there

Sometimes there are 11 avoid notes while playing free jazz!

[m78w]

Hey JazzReggie,

Sorry, just saw this question, but yes, those triad pairs can be used over both 7th and Maj7 chords.

So if you have C and Dm triads, you can use that pair to play over C7 and/or Cmaj7.

As well, if you want to imply a #11 sounds, you can play the C and D triad pair over C7 and Cmaj7 as well.

Since there is no maj7 or b7 you can move these pairs between the two chords and they will work over both. Kind of like C6 and C13(no 7) if you want to get very specific with the voicings.

Try them out over both chords, you might find that you like the C and Dm over major 7 but not 7th chords, while the #11 sound, C and D, fits better over C7 and not Cmaj7 in your ears. Try them out and see how they sit with you.