Does anyone care?

[czardas]

Your enjoyment of music and educational resources such as YouTube are under threat from SOPA and PIPA. If you don't know what that is then search wiki.

Here's some more awesomeness to chew over.

Supreme Court upholds copyright law protecting foreign works once freely available - The Washington Post

[AmundLauritzen]

The project is shelved for now because enough people protested against it.
This is just round one however.

They'll try again.

“Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing
the freedom of speech.”
― Benjamin Franklin

[mr. beaumont]

Part of me thinks it's a joke...it's essentially "unpoliceable."

But our government will learn the hard way, after they're made fools of.

[cosmic gumbo]

At least they got Washington's attention about the reality of the huge amount of money that is now missing in the art economy. They showed the gov't how much they are losing in tax revenue, because nobody is paying for art. Let's hope they can draft a law that serves the correct purpose. In the meantime, stealing food to feed my kids means jail time, while stealing art goes unpunished. What is to be expected when the average musician thinks someone like ASCAP is their enemy? Ignorance and apathy continues to prevail.

[czardas]

I heard rumours the debate was to resume in february. It seems that the withdrawal is not 100% trusted.

PIPA and SOPA withdrawn from the house | Technology Mob | Technology Mob

I understand cosmic gumbo's POV, but for me music is something that everyone should be able to benefit from. Society has many evils and music isn't one of them. Removing youtube links and scaring the face of this forum isn't what anyone wants now is it? Only rich kids can learn to play mid 20C classical music. That's not a solution to anything. It harms both musicians and society.

[WhoisLevang]

Big money controls everything they can, one way or another. The same people pushing SOPA and PIPA managed to get the FBI to persuade the police in New Zealand to arrest the "Megaupload" owner and shut down the website. New Zealand won't prosecute him, but he may be extradited for trial in the states. This one day after the big protests had their seeming effect.If feds can bust Megaupload, why bother with anti-piracy bills? - CSMonitor.com

[czardas]

@WhoIsLevang I found that article very informative. Thanks for the link. There are a few other links on that page which I'm reading right now.

[WhoisLevang]

Your welcome Czardis. I fear one day that the web will be completely controlled. I don't believe for a second that the big media companies give a crap about the artists, musicians, actors, etc. It's just more money they think they are missing out on. "Napster Bad" stays in my memory. -

http://www.lagmonster.info/humor/cam...terbad_56k.swf

[czardas]

I tend to agree with you. Although there are some bad things on the net, it has also become a fantastic resource for information and learning. In one article I read, Senator Wyden said:

... to solve this problem by doing damage to the Internet, which has been a juggernaut for job growth and innovation and free speech, is a mistake. So that was our argument: There’s a problem, there’s a remedy, but you don’t need a cluster bomb to solve it

The other issue regarding Internet security seems to be the real reason for the backdown. Leaving holes in the net to be exploited by cyber-criminals was not the intention. Their technical solution would appear to need some rethinking.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by WhoisLevang

Your welcome Czardis. I fear one day that the web will be completely controlled. I don't believe for a second that the big media companies give a crap about the artists, musicians, actors, etc. It's just more money they think they are missing out on. "Napster Bad" stays in my memory. -

http://www.lagmonster.info/humor/cam...terbad_56k.swf

oh, so that's what its all about huh? who "cares" about somebody else?
so we should pass and obey/disobey laws based on feelings then?

and here i thought it was about intellectual property rights.

[czardas]

fumblefingers, do you want Hollywood to control the internet?

[fumblefingers]

it seems to me that things have switched.
now you have to record a CD so that people will want to see you in concert? concerts are the only way to earn a living for serious musicians?
it used to be the other way around, and tours lost money etc.

so, jazz ain't dead yet but the internet may all but bring on its demise after all?

[czardas]

I'm not sure what you mean. There are plenty of performing musicians who earn a living from live performances (promoting other artists by covering their songs) and the Internet is very useful to these performers. This is about SOPA and PIPA, and the effect such proposals will have on the internet; particulary music and websites such as this forum.

[WhoisLevang]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

oh, so that's what its all about huh? who "cares" about somebody else?
so we should pass and obey/disobey laws based on feelings then?

and here i thought it was about intellectual property rights.

In light of what happened in New Zealand, I would say it's more about plutocracy and imperialism. JMO.

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

it seems to me that things have switched.
now you have to record a CD so that people will want to see you in concert? concerts are the only way to earn a living for serious musicians?
it used to be the other way around, and tours lost money etc.

so, jazz ain't dead yet but the internet may all but bring on its demise after all?

the last album Rosenwinkel made for Verve, it sold 25,000 units. He didn't' see a single penny from all those sales. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Where did that money go?? Who took it? Who, to use Mr. Smith's logic, was stealing the food directly from Rosenwinkel's table? The record company.

Since then, he has released his own albums. And presumably made SOME money from them--in the sense that anything is more than zero.

Regarding touring--jazz musicians have always made money on gigs and have always always been exploited by record companies.

Dave Douglas is a good example of a musician who has been trying to use the internet for his own use, a la Greenleaf Music.

[JimBobWay]

SOPA and PIPA are already in force, de facto - and would have been passed as law were it not for a few truly unique and courageous individuals in our US system of 'government', and a massive supporting cadre of those who will suffer when this inevitably becomes the "LAW" of the 'land'.

This is not news. This is a work in progress, 40+ years in development, a cancer on the body of free and open communication and distribution that has metastasized and will kill this wonderful global forum we have come to take for granted sooner than we would all like. Read the full text of the laws.

And there ain't a damn thing we can do about it...sorry to bum you out but there it is. Unless you have a few billion dollars to throw at this...

[Soon]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

it seems to me that things have switched.
now you have to record a CD so that people will want to see you in concert?

There is nothing new in creating a CD to promote a concert tour. Robert Fripp was outspoken regarding what he termed a 'vampiric' relationship between artist and audience. The idea of making an LP or CD to promote a concert tour goes back to the 80's if not 70's. If there's been a switch then it was before my lifetime.

[fumblefingers]

thats not what i've heard, but i'm talking about big rock acts. i always heard that they lost money in the 60's and 70's, but toured anyway to promote album sales - which is where they made their money.
Come to think of it, there are at least a few big acts that made millions from records sales without touring at all (the Beatles and Steely Dan for example).

mega bands and mega tours with sky high ticket prices are a relatively new thing. i believe that the Stones really got that going, and a number of other big acts (U2 for example) have benefited from it as well. but that is for only for the few.

if you take the example of a well-known but more modest artist, they used to be able to make some money with album sales (depending on their deal that is!), while playing smaller tours or shows. is that the current situation?

now tours seem to be managed and priced so that they make a profit, and CDs sales seem unreliable.

so, are you all saying that jazzers who record a couple of CDs per year can make a great living? that's not what i've heard. i've heard artists complain that they make very little from CD sales and other royalties.

i am under the impression that file sharing is about people downloading tunes and albums without buying the CD. if so, that's theft as far as i'm concerned, and i don't think that i'm alone with that point of view.

in a nutshell, what do PIPA and SOPA attempt to do?

[Dark Star]

It's not about copyrights or stealing. It's about control.

[WhoisLevang]

Originally Posted by Dark Star

It's not about copyrights or stealing. It's about control.

and THE MONEY. I just "pirated" this-The Lawrence Welk Show: Swingin` Shepard Blues - YouTube
the method I used does not allow it to be redistributed from my computer and the demographic that might be interested in "stealing" this file is so small that I doubt the RIAA would be concerned. (And it may very well have become "public domain".)
However, if you pirated any of these-
New Music Releases, Music Reviews, Album Releases & Song Releases | Billboard.com
I bet you would come up on their radar/tracking. Especially if you used a method which allows it to be redistributed. It's a nickle they think they are losing.
By the way, YES I do think it matters if someone cares. These companies and organizations have NO morality about or problem with STEALING (by deceit, trickery, exploitation, or opportunistic methods) intellectual property from artists and then making huge profits from them.
Billy Joel, John Fogherty, and Prince could all tell you about "intellectual property".
New Zealand didn't even have anti-piracy laws until the middle of 2011 when they managed to push through a very stringent law without going through their usual process-New Zealand piracy laws in effect starting tomorrow - Neowin.net
As said, it's about control and even more so, it's about money they can make by having control.
It reminds me of Monsanto's self terminating seed.
"We're Doomed!"- Private Fraser

More reading and a video-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-jo...b_1212417.html