UNT audition...

[jazzjew7890]

Hello everyone, I hope everything is going well during this great holiday season.

Well the title says it all.
My UNT jazz auditions will be on the 28th of January and truth be told I am extremely nervous. I'm pretty set in my song choices: Now's the time, On Green Dolphin Street, and 'Round Midnight.
My biggest fear at this point is the competition and sight reading. The program at UNT is extremely competitive which worries me because I need to get some sort of scholarship to get an out-of-state tuition waiver or else I can kiss that dream good bye. My sight reading is average but not incredible. Would the sight reading be specific for undergraduate guitar players or is it going to be the same stuff they'd shell out for the lab band and ensemble auditions? Any hints to sight reading in general? I get this feeling that Fred Hamilton would bring out some insane composition to watch me lose it.
Any other advice for nailing the audition would be great.

Studying at UNT is my dream and playing guitar is my passion, music has been my greatest dedication.

[fumblefingers]

Jake Hanlon should know.

Also, I would ask Fred directly. He may not tell you much specifically but should get you in the ballpark.

[TruthHertz]

Good luck!! Do you devote time to sight reading every day? 15-20 minutes on different types of music (different genres) will help your confidence. Clear your mind before you begin and take in the sounds of the music as well as the finger movements. You may find out what they'll test you on but regular practice will make the whole prospect less intimidating. There's time to do this, if you're regularly devoted, you'll feel a big difference very quickly.
Just an opinion
David

[JakeAcci]

I'm also preparing for auditions as well, one of mine is on the 28th too! I haven't done it before, but I've certainly received a lot of instruction from people who have, as well as information on these message boards. I'm 27 and have been around the block for a while. It's been a while but I'm finally getting around to auditioning/applying for an undergrad program even though I've been fairly involved in the local music scene since I got out of high school.

In a month you can't drastically change your level of playing, so just practice every day and focus on being as relaxed as possible. It's likely that you'll be extra nervous the day of, so you have to prepare for that emotion, acknowledge it, and play your best. In a sense it's kind of like...don't freak out about freaking out about freaking out about etc... There's a cool page in the back of "pumping nylon" where the author has some very insightful points about emotionally preparing for a performance.

I'd also say, play your best but don't overshoot it - they probably want to hear you sound good as opposed to pulling out a lot of fancy tricks and falling flat on your face. Play vocabulary you really own and are confident in. Are the auditions with a live band? If so, interact with the band, show that you are listening to them.

As for reading, all you can do is just practice and prepare. It might be useful to find out how much the reading affects their decision. I'd wager if you play amazing but read ok that will be more impressive than if you improvise at a mediocre level but are an amazing reader. I could be wrong though - I know very little about UNT.

By the way, one of the schools I'm applying to is Berklee, and one thing I did that was extremely helpful was take a few lessons with a teacher that is currently there. He gave me feedback about my strengths and weaknesses and plenty of insider insight to the audition.

As for the competition, you really need to put it completely out of your head. There are going to be players there better than you and players there worse than you, so all you can do is play the material that you 'own' and present yourself as a confident, mature musician. I mean, if you heard all the other applicants before hand, would that change your approach to the audition all that much? You'll still have to just showcase your strengths, it doesn't matter what the other guitarists are playing.

I don't know how the set up of the auditions goes - if you can hear other auditions happening before you step into your own, don't give it any thought it all. If somebody is playing awful, don't get cocky, if somebody is playing great, don't get insecure. What difference does it make? It's not like you can just all of the sudden decide to really "bring it" - that goes back to overshooting.

[Soco]

Fred Hamilton is a really cool guy, I wouldn't be too worried- He is a great reader though.
When I auditioned at UNT I just sent a tape(since I was located in Norway at the time), so I didn't have to deal with any sightreading until when I got there.Reading is a big part of the lab band auditions.
I was only there for 3 semesters, but it was a great program.

[cosmic gumbo]

I have never heard anyone admit that they ever got a substantial scholarship for jazz anywhere. In the end, you will pay a lot. Those that can pay, rather than play, usually get to go where they choose. Some folks say different, but they can't back it up. If they can, it's a very rare exception. If you are driven, you will find a way. Money trumps talent for Berklee admissions, like most places. UNT?

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I have never heard anyone admit that they ever got a substantial scholarship for jazz anywhere.

I have. And I've known a number of "free rides." They were talented and exceptional performers, I admit. One friend had a 90% NEC ticket, was offered 100% at Berklee and switched. The connections he made in either place would have made it worth while to have gone in any case. There are also many instances where students I've known have gotten in, couldn't pay, got scholarship help, worked really hard and got gigs while in school; good gigs that would not have been available otherwise. They left early and made their careers in the music world. That might be seen as "paid graduate school"

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Money trumps talent for Berklee admissions,

What you get out is what you put in. There's talent, a lot of it, in music schools all over. Now, using it, keeping it and developing it, that's another story. Money trumps a lot, but life's not a card game. There are lots of ways to win the game. People buy their way in, people play their way in, not mutually exclusive.
As far as getting in, take cosmic gumbo's wisdom for what it offers through his experience, but play your best angle for the scholarships. His trump game aside, there is a search for your talent; make it show. There are good musicians that are poor. There are good musicians that work hard. There are good musicians that play the system and make it work for them. Never assume it will come easily. Know the system and be your best. And "God bless the child that's got his own."
David

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I have never heard anyone admit that they ever got a substantial scholarship for jazz anywhere. In the end, you will pay a lot. Those that can pay, rather than play, usually get to go where they choose. Some folks say different, but they can't back it up. If they can, it's a very rare exception. If you are driven, you will find a way. Money trumps talent for Berklee admissions, like most places. UNT?

I know several people who have received considerable scholarships to both New England Conservatory and Berklee, some of them full tuition.

Berklee will accept a lot of people, but they also DO give a lot of scholarships away. This is completely inarguable - the school is down the street from me and I've lived in Boston my whole life. There is even information on the Berklee website about various scholarships they offer.

[Soco]

I did get a scholarship from UNT(based on the audition tape I sent), and I got an offer from New England. The UNT scholarship ended up being a lot better since it allowed me to pay in-state-tuition. New England still ended up being expensive even with a shcolarship.
When I was at Manhattan Scool of Music I didn't have any scholarships at all, it seems like no guitarists at all where rewared in terms of scholarships there. I don't know if it has changed now.
Berklee has options and I know someone that started with a 50% scholarship and after a while got 100%, so if you work hard throughout the studies, it is possible to get rewarded.

[jazzjew7890]

Thanks everyone for the great advice!

If I can read lines out of Fred hamilton's melodic studies book I'm hoping I'll fair well on the sight reading.

I just hate competition, the idea of be judging against others over a set of rules doesn't sit right with me when everyone else is good at other things. Mr. Hamilton is a literal guitar wizard so his knowledge and wisdom probably helps him really see where a musician can go.

And as far as I'm concerned I can never be perfect, I'll always be able to learn something from someone. Only time will tell where I will be in five years.


"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny." -FZ

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I have never heard anyone admit that they ever got a substantial scholarship for jazz anywhere. In the end, you will pay a lot. Those that can pay, rather than play, usually get to go where they choose. Some folks say different, but they can't back it up. If they can, it's a very rare exception. If you are driven, you will find a way. Money trumps talent for Berklee admissions, like most places. UNT?

My teacher's star classical guitar pupil, the product of 10 long years of private study with him, from age 8 to 18, just started at Indiana University School of Music. He doesn't have to pay a single cent, having been awarded a full ride, worth apparently over $120,000 to cover room, tuition, fees, etc.

When he did his audition,the Indiana University music professor personally told my teacher, "congratulations, in my 20 years here, I have never heard a player as good as this. Well done, sir".

So, yeah, it can be done. But you're right, to earn it, you really have to be dedicated and hard working.

[Soco]

Originally Posted by jazzjew7890

Thanks everyone for the great advice!

If I can read lines out of Fred hamilton's melodic studies book I'm hoping I'll fair well on the sight reading.

I just hate competition, the idea of be judging against others over a set of rules doesn't sit right with me when everyone else is good at other things. Mr. Hamilton is a literal guitar wizard so his knowledge and wisdom probably helps him really see where a musician can go.

And as far as I'm concerned I can never be perfect, I'll always be able to learn something from someone. Only time will tell where I will be in five years.


"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny." -FZ

Fred is a really nice and relaxed guy, I am sure he will do whatever he can to make the audition as comfortable as possible.
Fred is also a great upright bass player!

[Space Pickle]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I have never heard anyone admit that they ever got a substantial scholarship for jazz anywhere. In the end, you will pay a lot. Those that can pay, rather than play, usually get to go where they choose. Some folks say different, but they can't back it up. If they can, it's a very rare exception. If you are driven, you will find a way. Money trumps talent for Berklee admissions, like most places. UNT?

Universities and colleges are *desperate* for good players and they will generally throw all kinds of money at said good players to get them to attend.

Mr. Jew: having done the jazz degree thing, my advice would be to not go unless they're going to cover most or all of your tuition, it's really not worth it otherwise. You know better than anyone else if you can hack it or not - if you aren't ready, don't go. The school and the money will still be there next year. Take the time to practice and jam (play all your local jam sessions, jazz or not).

[Sandor]

There certainly is a theme in someone's posts.

I was curious if anyone knew if age mattered for scholarships. Would a guy in his 20s or 30s who is awesome get passed up for a teenager who is good, but not at the same level?

[max chill]

Being well acquainted with directors of high school music programs, and knowing some college music program adjudicators, plus a slew of new england based all-state high school musicians, cosmic dumbo is giving the most accurate view of the situation for the average level high school musician.

[Soco]

Originally Posted by Sandor

There certainly is a theme in someone's posts.

I was curious if anyone knew if age mattered for scholarships. Would a guy in his 20s or 30s who is awesome get passed up for a teenager who is good, but not at the same level?

A lot of older students got the best Scholarships at some of the schools I went to. Some of them where in there 40's and had worked with Elvin Jones, Ravi Coltrane. They came back to do a Master's after allready having worked as professionals for years often rewarded with big scholarships.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by max chill

Being well acquainted with directors of high school music programs, and knowing some college music program adjudicators, plus a slew of new england based all-state high school musicians, cosmic dumbo is giving the most accurate view of the situation for the average level high school musician.

Amen. There will be no rewards for mediocrity in this world (excepting politics.) Perhaps the only reward that could be offered would be a generous G.I. bill and a declaration of war on China. Chill and dumbo, gotta say I can't argue there. I'm hoping the OP would be exceptional, and have good incentive to work to that goal of excellence. It's in the realm of possibility for every individual-I do believe that.

One suggestion if you're serious: don't live in the dorms, unplug your damn computer, don't watch TV and practice like it was your life. It's not a long time, being in school, and it can be a life changer. Your choice.
David

[Sandor]

Originally Posted by Soco

A lot of older students got the best Scholarships at some of the schools I went to. Some of them where in there 40's and had worked with Elvin Jones, Ravi Coltrane. They came back to do a Master's after allready having worked as professionals for years often rewarded with big scholarships.

Cool, thanks for sharing. I was thinking about it, and could see it going either way. Anyone else have experience with this?

[jazzjew7890]

At this point in time the only thing I plan on doing in college is dedicating myself to music. I also have met a few people who were music majors and did slack of in college. (drinking way too much) The surprise is they all dropped out.

The Samurai says, "Go into battle expecting to die and surly you will win. Go into battle hoping to win and surly you shall perish." Everyone is right, I can't sweat it. If I get a scholarship I do, if I don't then I just go to a school in North Carolina.

Also on a completely unrelated note, I spent seven years in Texas and the fact I moved my 12th grade year and I can't get in state tuition is well... Me being a Christian woman I can't bring myself to say it.

[Jake Hanlon]

i have 3 former students starting their masters in the last semester on various instruments and finished my masters from \unt in 08.

you're probably fine for material and the better your reading the better your chances, but it's not the be all and end all. All schools look for potential and talent, Fred is looking for the same thing I'd imagine, and can you work hard.

it is also important to realize that UNT gets hundreds of applicants a year, probably between 50 plus guitarists easily and only room for so many. play your best don't worry about anything else and if it works out you'll be accepted.

that counts for graduate and undergrad.

best of luck

[Jake Hanlon]

if you hate competition you might be a little warry of UNT, not for the guitar studio, i found that it was very chill and cool but there is always an underlying vibe of competition throughout the jazz program, it's put there to prepare you for the real world, you have to compete to be a Musician, might as well learn it as fast as possible.

I found at least int he horn studios and the drum studio especially that the competition was alive, it was friendly competition, the days of the UNT darkness reputation is overwith (or it was when I was studying there) but be prepared for people who are competiative for lab band chairs and forum ensembles. \It's a good thing, and if you can accept it for what it is it becomes a non-factor very quickly.

[Solo Flight]

My jazz camp friend -
I will second those who say that a jazz education degree is not worth going into a lot of debt for. No one will ask you for your diploma or check your grades when you're looking to get a gig somewhere. As far as I can tell, a music degree is only necessary if you're looking to teach in high school or college -- and for college, you'll need at least a masters. That said, if you're set on doing a college music program, I would strongly recommend also learning as much as you can about the music business and where it's likely to go in the next ten years. I'm not in the business but I can tell just from the sidelines that there's been a sea change in the industry and no one's quite sure what it will look like years from now. So you've got to be ready and able to jump on and take advantage of whatever new technology will come down the pike that will change how music is marketed, etc.

And of course, none of this is worth doing if you're not healthy enough to enjoy it. Hope you've managed to kick that nasty habit! Happy New Year and good luck!

[jazzjew7890]

Kicked it right after the camp!
If a future in music doesn't look good then I intend on switching out my major for my minor (political science) or becoming an officer in the air force but I need to focus on right now, lord knows what the future holds in store.
I'm on a pursuit of knowledge for something I'm deeply passionate about and my dream is to spread the knowledge I've gained to world.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Solo Flight

My jazz camp friend -
I will second those who say that a jazz education degree is not worth going into a lot of debt for... Hope you've managed to kick that nasty habit!

There are many ways to judge the value of an education. Not all of it will be in the clout it affords one in a job interview. There is a very strong networking component in the community of musicians and at one point in a musician's life finding the people, not to mention the common language, that make you fluent is not to be underestimated. A good school will bring the most talented pool of potential together in one place in the space of a few years. What a student can do with their own potential is far beyond a piece of paper.
A year in music school may also become a time when a student may find the true meaning of improvising. I've known those who have used that knowledge in their decisions to put a musical fantasy in its place and get real estate, computer, law, ... careers. Truth be told, many of the most successful uses of music school educations were securing careers before they ever graduated. It's a stepping stone, and a very potent one if you keep your eyes open.

Originally Posted by Solo Flight

Hope you've managed to kick that nasty habit!

So for your posting on a public forum of worldwide readership and participation, what are you referring to? Something you want to share with the class?

Originally Posted by jazzjew7890

Kicked it right after the camp!

I'm on a pursuit of knowledge for something I'm deeply passionate about and my dream is to spread the knowledge I've gained to world.

You hold onto that attitude and you will put yourself in a different class completely. You will be an asset to the community.
Good luck!
David

[Solo Flight]

There are many ways to judge the value of an education. Not all of it will be in the clout it affords one in a job interview. There is a very strong networking component in the community of musicians and at one point in a musician's life finding the people, not to mention the common language, that make you fluent is not to be underestimated. A good school will bring the most talented pool of potential together in one place in the space of a few years. What a student can do with their own potential is far beyond a piece of paper.

Couldn't agree more - if you can afford it without lots of debt, I would highly recommend it. It's the future debt that can put a crimp into future plans.

Kicked it right after the camp!

Way to go! - Jamey would be pleased.