Is this music?

[jazzbow]

Now I have discussed 'Prepared guitar' on a few threads in the past but I'm intrigued as to your thoughts.

I find this sort of experimentation a great release when I've hit a brick wall where creativity is concerned.

I also am fascinated by installation art and sound. In 2010 there was an instillation set on a main bridge in a city, in Canada I think. The bridge was miked at various places (road, rail, suspension joists, etc.) and fed back to a mixing desk/laptop/looper and various musicians were invited to 'play' the bridge which was then played to an audience on one of the banks of the river adjacent to the bridge.

Anyhoo, here's a taster of guitar music......So to speak

YouTube Video

What do you think?

[JakeAcci]

Hey that's cool! That's a lot more "music" than some stuff I've heard - there were discernible pitches and rhythms!

No question that is music to me.

Here's a question: does anybody have anything to gain by determining that something is not music? Does that solve any problem or help anybody in any way?

Here are some friends of mine:

YouTube Video

[mr. beaumont]

Not only music, really cool music.

My definition of music is very broad according to some folks...mainly because I join guitar forums but also enjoy hip hop.

[TruthHertz]

I love it, and it's music to my ears.
At some point in my life it would have made me curious and I may not have chosen it over a Joe Pass solo concert, but now, I thank you for posting that.
It's a delight to my senses.
Check out Dave Tronzo if this tickles you.
Jon Damian, Bill Frisell's greatest acknowledged mentor (Wayne Krantz's too) is very much in this corner.
Compositionally, texturally and sonically brilliant.
David

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

[NSJ]

I really dig the Henry Cow/Slap Happy/Art Bears discography, a lot. At one time, all those concerned (Krause, Frith, Cutler, Cooper, et al) were really innovative, creative, progressive musicians.

But they kind of went off the rails after that.

I suppose he thinks that "anything" qualifies as music, any noise works, in any random sequence. In which case, why practice, work hard and try to actually learn something?

I suppose we can even add "Dr". Eugene Chadbourne playing the "music" of John Zorn--look, more fun with balloons.

EUGENE CHADBOURNE - #32 Pops Plays Pops - YouTube

I know, I know, the people who somehow dismiss this must be supremely "intolerant" and "bigoted" because we discriminate against the use of balloons as plectrums.

Since I have started practicing jazz guitar, I have developed less and less patience for "clever" stuff like this. My teacher has said on many occasions that 'academia' has ruined music--even as he worked really hard to get the guitar and guitar music accepted in the hallowed halls (in the late 60s and early 70s, he single-handedly started and got accredited the B.A. music degree in classical guitar at not one, but two local universities-DePaul and Roosevelt--before his single-minded efforts, there was no place remotely near Chicago that a guitarist could go to study with his or her instrument in an accredited college setting).

He has played with the CSO on multiple occasions-both as a featured soloist in a guitar concerto and in an electric context, playing jazz. That doesn't stop him, from actually booing when he goes there as a patron, when he feels the CSO deserves the boos.

I know, I know, the people who say that you really have to be dedicated, work like a fiend at your craft, who dismiss the notion that ANY noise, any random sequence of sounds, possibly even devoid of any semblance of pulse, meter, rhythm, or groove is entitled to comprise the canon of "good music", what do they know??

Anything goes, right?

[jazzbow]

I'm liking the response here. I come across as a bit facetious and I really didn't think this type of sound would be welcomed! Yeah, I really like the idea of space and sound, y'know, buskers in tube stations, choirs in cathedrals.

Here's another clip of Fred Frith proving just how tasteful his guitar playing is, Oh and the percussionist is a Scottish lady called Dame Evelyn Glennie who is actually profoundly deaf. Check it out

YouTube Video

Real Nice.........

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

I love it, and it's music to my ears.
At some point in my life it would have made me curious and I may not have chosen it over a Joe Pass solo concert, but now, I thank you for posting that.
It's a delight to my senses.
Check out Dave Tronzo if this tickles you.
Jon Damian, Bill Frisell's greatest acknowledged mentor (Wayne Krantz's too) is very much in this corner.
Compositionally, texturally and sonically brilliant.
David

Actually, i dig the Damian piece--it doesn't seem so random, seems to have a discernible form, has a nice sense of texture and atmosphere, unlike the Frith piece and Chadbourne "pieces", where it seems that, ahem, "anything goes".

Mr. Damian's book, "the Guitarist's guide to improvising" is fantastic, by the way. It deserves a place in every guitarist's library.

[Dark Star]

Yes, of course it's music. It's just bad music, that's all.

[TruthHertz]

I should say that I have a pretty wide range of approaches to my own playing and it does have a lot to do with playing in a variety of situations. When I play prepared guitar, my use of space, my awareness of space is different. I'd really resent someone playing Charlie Parker licks if not for a good reason. When I'm playing standards, I play changes.
No apologies needed for not liking it, and there'll always be someone to applaud or condemn the directions of music. There'll always be some authority to tell you if it's genuine or not. This is not wide audience music.
In the end, it's do you like it or not. Playing free has made me a much better "inside" player. I listen a lot more and I don't take things for granted. And I have less tolerance for my own playing if I play without a good reason. Good outside playing is about intelligent use of space.
David

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Dark Star

Yes, of course it's music. It's just bad music, that's all.

Louis Armstrong disparaged bebop as incomprehensible "Chinese music,"

Jimi Hendrix was seen as the end of rock music.

Frank Zappa is still seen as a trashy talentless sensationalist.

John McLaughlin has been criticized for being a note machine.

People say Scofield doesn't play jazz.

I still read reviews that say Miles didn't do anything after the 60's.

I think the world is a better place because of "bad" music. It'll never be popular but that's not the point.
Don't get me wrong, I like "good" music too. Justin Bieber has a right to be on anyone's Christmas list. Hanna Montana is good too, 'good as Disney. I have a Hanna Montana scarf and I love it. Yay!
David

[Dark Star]

I actually like that music & only posted what I did for profiling purposes. It helps to weed out assholes.
I like that music very much, & have been listening to Fred Frith since the mid '70s.
Once when playing an experimental piece I broke a string; the core broke, but the outside winding was intact. So I pulled the string gently, & the winding began to unwind. The sound was unearthly. I regretted that it wasn't being recorded & that I would probably never be able to duplicate the effect again.

[Marto]

I think that was great. I have never heard of Fred Frith before, I think I will check him out now. I like knowing that there are people trying to make real music through unorthodox approaches to the instrument.
Also you can tell Frith is a good musician, he has good rhythm and a sense of what is musical, and that makes me more interested in what he has to say.

[Sphere]

Fred Frith is a brilliant musician. It's a matter of taste, of course, but to call it 'bad music' is a HUGE stretch.
Mózg is a great club, btw.

[cosmic gumbo]

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Teletubbies are so HOT. Even the fake ones.
David

[bretkills]

According to me many Company use still cheap guitar, so the name of Malaysia and other counties, such as the instrument's back sprung up. Because most of the work is the overall quality of CNC machine tools is not bad, especially when I think of the nightmare cheap guitar, in the 1960s. Then, like 2x4's neck ", the string 1 / 2" off the fingerboard, sometimes done under the green wood, but it is a guitar, we are pleased to have one.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by bretkills

According to me many Company use still cheap guitar, so the name of Malaysia and other counties, such as the instrument's back sprung up. Because most of the work is the overall quality of CNC machine tools is not bad, especially when I think of the nightmare cheap guitar, in the 1960s. Then, like 2x4's neck ", the string 1 / 2" off the fingerboard, sometimes done under the green wood, but it is a guitar, we are pleased to have one.

OK...?

[JakeAcci]

Is this music.

[fingerstyler]

I recommend the book "The Rest is Noise". If you like this music, this is a great book describing the music of the 20th century.

If you don't like this music. I still recommend the book for it's historical value.

fs

[augusjazz]

Everything is music while someone enjoy.
No need to be fundamentalists.

[jazzbow]

Originally Posted by bretkills

According to me many Company use still cheap guitar, so the name of Malaysia and other counties, such as the instrument's back sprung up. Because most of the work is the overall quality of CNC machine tools is not bad, especially when I think of the nightmare cheap guitar, in the 1960s. Then, like 2x4's neck ", the string 1 / 2" off the fingerboard, sometimes done under the green wood, but it is a guitar, we are pleased to have one.

Ha! This is the written equivalent to the the first Fred Frith video I posted!
It has a theme and form.

All the right notes but not necessarily in the right order

[Drumbler]

Regarding the first video. It's crap. Something a 3 year old might do.

Similar to some modern art that looks like a monkey did it. Absurd.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Regarding the first video. It's crap. Something a 3 year old might do.

Regarding a huge amount of music people play thinking they're playing "jazz", I'd never have the authority to call it crap nor would I ever dare to. It's something people that love it do. Regarding jazz in general in its many forms, some of it I love, some I won't listen to. Worthy of respect? Worthy of prejudice?
You're the judge I guess.

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Similar to some modern art that looks like a monkey did it. Absurd.

Monkey music is a derogatory term used by the greater culture to describe music that came from a specific subculture; loud and unacceptable. There was a time that all the jazz we know of and consider classic was thought of as monkey music.

Judgements are easy. Understanding often is not easy.

David

[hed_b94]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Regarding the first video. It's crap. Something a 3 year old might do.

Similar to some modern art that looks like a monkey did it. Absurd.

Try to understand first!

[renato13]

Originally Posted by hed_b94

Try to understand first!

Try to feel it first.

[renato13]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Regarding the first video. It's crap. Something a 3 year old might do.

Similar to some modern art that looks like a monkey did it. Absurd.

So, for you art is necessarily related to technique?

[Drumbler]

You guys can drink the kool-aid if you like.

The emperor has no clothes.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Monkey music is a derogatory term used by the greater culture to describe music that came from a specific subculture; loud and unacceptable. There was a time that all the jazz we know of and consider classic was thought of as monkey music.

Judgements are easy. Understanding often is not easy.

David

You must be kidding me by bringing out the race card in this.

Are you serious?

Understanding that the "music" I referred to is nonsense is all there is to it.

The OP asked for opinions.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by renato13

So, for you art is necessarily related to technique?

Well, have your 3 year old get out the pots and pans and bang on them.

Call it jazz if it swings.

[Dark Star]

You know, they said the same thing when Charlie Christian set his guitar on fire. Barney Kessel once told me, "I was there when he [Charlie] did that the first time, & all I could think of was 'How's he gonna pay for that?' Besides, he ruined a beautiful suit, too."
Drumbler- c'mon now. If you know Fred Frith's stuff at all you know he knows how to play, & that he understands music. What he is doing in the experimental realms might be a statement against too much schooling, or just a desire to find "patterns in the chaos", so to speak.