"Why Jazz Isn't Cool Anymore"

[FrankBlack]

A recent, provocative poem by Nicholas Payton called "Why Jazz Isn't Cool Anymore" has sparked a minor conversation on the Interwebs. As a devout non-Facebook user, I've neither seen nor read any of the conversations, but there is also a somewhat tangential response to those conversations by Ian Carey.

I understand Payton's thinking even though I don't fully agree with his evaluation. We all have our own perspective on music and art and artists. I often feel that jazz guitarists, somewhat like classical guitarists, are prisoners of history rather than artists freed by their musical ancestors. I also feel they tend to be victims of "the market". This causes the endless conga lines of performers playing a set list remarkably similar to each other's over and over and over. The echoes of "On Green Dolphin Street" never seem to stop bouncing off the walls of clubs (same goes for "Recuerdos De La Alhambra" for classical cats). Thumbing through jazz albums makes you very familiar with the names of a modest repertoire.

Having said that, there are many guitarists making fresh and innovative art in all genres. So, while Payton's thoughts are well-taken and the various responses are equally valid, I also know that jazz is a seed planted in some that springs up into the strangest and most wonderful thing.

If nothing else, conflict loosens the rust and shakes off the dust.

[AmundLauritzen]

Regarding Paytons opinions:

Typical hipster attitude sprinkled with "Don't like what I don't like". No matter how you put it, there is hardly no innovation anymore, as most of it would be categorized as free jazz or fusion, or a hybrid of the two. Those who think they are innovative, who label themselves as such are usually wearing the emperors new clothes. Once those people realize that it is actually okay to do something that has been done before, I think their whole fascination with jazz will fade and it will be revealed that they are not in it for the music, but rather for some hipster image of trying to be different just because.

Innovation has to build on something that already exists. Listen to Kurt Rosenwinkel. He has a solid foundation in tradition, but he is one of the most unique jazz musicians of our time. You can instantly recognize his voice.

Once the element of repetition/recognition disappears, the whole criteria for comparing present to past fades away. How can it be innovative if it can't be compared to what has already been done? If it has no elements of the past, then it is completely untied to the genre and can't be labeled as such. The author of the poem claims to be a "postmodernist New Orleans musician" because God forbid he admits to being influenced by jazz music.

I'll never understand that militant hipster attitude and the need to criticize people who play in a traditional way. They are already outnumbered by the hipster jazzers and by other genres and squashed into a corner. But no, they're not even allowed to hide out in their little corner playing music for an audience consisting mostly of old people and antisocial youth, it must be eradicated completely for its lack of vision. How dare we play tonal music on archtops?

I have the outmost respect for cutting edge jazz musicians who are good at what they do, and who have an honest musical intention, who are well grounded in the tradition so that they can break the rules and make it work.
You can tell the difference between those and the "image jazzers" right away.
Actually, real cutting edge jazzers rarely feel the need to bash on tradition because they are well grounded in it themselves.

[brwnhornet59]

Frank,

I like you, understand Payton's thinking, though much of his evaluation is contrary to my thinking and perception of music as a whole. I say this because I am not hung up on "Jazz" as being some finite box that we get trapped in. I look at jazz as being an ever evolving aspect of Music as a whole, that is as much as or even more of, a state of mind than a genre labeled as such for a marketing ploy.

Knowing where you came from is good perspective if you want to get somewhere without being side tracked or going in circles too often. But just because we revisit the steps of others, as we meander our way through our musical journey, does not mean that our validity is null and void as Artists, because someone else was there first. I want to see and hear every natural and man made wonder of the world, doesn't everyone? This is part of our innate curiosity that defines us as a species. Humanity is a better place because of Art and Science, and Jazz is one of a myriad of genres that speaks of the pain as well as the joy, of that struggle.

So rattle the chains, shake off the dust, grab your instrument and make some music. And keep planting those seeds!

[rictroll]

I think that viewing jazz as a process rather than a genre helps one avoid mind traps like the one Payton has created for himself.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, I too don't see the term jazz as a limitation, I see it as a very broad music that encompasses a lot of sounds...and a musician need not be fluent in all of them (or even like them) to play jazz.

I get what payton is saying...I think he wanted to stir the pot a little too...if jazz died in '59, then really who can be bitter about it now? Just the cats who were playing it back then too...the rest of us got what we deserved, jumping into it...

I understand too his want to connect it to new orleans. While I love that jazz is now one of the more "integrated" of musics, I also think it's very important to remember the music's real roots. But after a point the argument becomes semantics...who cares really what we call it?

Sometimes I think that those most committed to furthering the music have the best respect for the past...and sometimes the best way to respect what came before is not to rehash it.

[cjm]

"Cool" is a pop cultural concept anyway. Of course jazz isn't cool. For a very short time it had a little bit of attention from the general population because it was "the latest thing" but the 90% of the population who are interested in "cool" quickly moved on to the next fad in music.

The jazzers who were themselves concerned about "cool" were often the ones who wasted their time (and often their lives) with heroin. Some grew up and quit worrying about "cool" -- others sometimes kicked the drugs but tried desperately to remain "cool" by integrating pop music dreck into their music. The result was as awkward and uncomfortable to watch/hear as a middle aged person dressing and speaking like a 16 year old.

Miles Davis is the text book example.

A small percentage of us are "wired" to connect with harmonically complex music. And that's all it is. When we foolishly try to make that "cool" it dooms us to disappointment -- and that's the way it ought to be.

I like flyfishing for trout and salmon. Chowderheads have tried to make that "cool" too, and you'll regularly see some silly bastard dressed up in a thousand dollars worth of regalia and packing a $1500 rod to try and outsmart a cold blooded aquatic creature with a brain the size of a pea. Despite their attempts, it ain't "cool" -- it's just fishing and 6.9999 billion other people think it's boring and stupid.

Which is how it ought to be.

If we just accept ourselves as a minority of uncool jazz nerds and get on with the business of enjoying the music then we don't have to worry about "cool."

[TruthHertz]

"Jazz" is not "cool" because there's no consensus about what "Jazz" or "cool" is. They are labels that change with the weather. The music is dynamic and ongoing. It's vital, alive, and defies the label of the moment. Leave the words to the word-sters. Leave the playing and the listening to those that enjoy it for its worth.
David

[tonedeaf]

It is interesting how, in human endeavors, heretical becomes doctrinaire and avant-garde becomes mainstream. Then each endeavor attracts is arbiters of rigid inclusion.

[bigdaddyguitar]

I never thought jazz was cool . I always thought it was friggin' HOT !!!

[vinlander]

Music is a language.
Vocabulary is the key to understanding.
In this age of lowest denominator promotion its no wonder that complex music is not cool and hype.
With a short span of attention, anything requiring effort is doomed...
We live in a world of instant gratification and marketing is targetting the mass of sheeps.
Yes Jazz is something for a certain group of people that really listen to what is going on, so is progressive rock, classical or anything not based on 3 chords, pop crap or dance.
Most people relationship to music is superficial; they only hear the music, they don't listen to it actively because it requires effort...

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by cjm

I like flyfishing for trout and salmon. Chowderheads have tried to make that "cool" too, and you'll regularly see some silly bastard dressed up in a thousand dollars worth of regalia and packing a $1500 rod to try and outsmart a cold blooded aquatic creature with a brain the size of a pea. Despite their attempts, it ain't "cool" -- it's just fishing and 6.9999 billion other people think it's boring and stupid.

I love it when flat lander's try to fly fish. Watch out for the clorox and dynamite.
Then they leave in their Beamer and go to the local hole in the wall to brag.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by vinlander

Music is a language.
Vocabulary is the key to understanding.
In this age of lowest denominator promotion its no wonder that complex music is not cool and hype.
With a short span of attention, anything requiring effort is doomed...
We live in a world of instant gratification and marketing is targetting the mass of sheeps.
Yes Jazz is something for a certain group of people that really listen to what is going on, so is progressive rock, classical or anything not based on 3 chords, pop crap or dance.
Most people relationship to music is superficial; they only hear the music, they don't listen to it actively because it requires effort...

I could not have said that better. Sheeple are herded to where Corporate America wants to lead them. American Idiot I mean Idol and Housewives of NJ are great examples. MTV is the poster child for garbage as well.

[ronjazz]

Miles Davis was the ultimate in cool; jazz had little to do with it.

[Philco]

Ah yes the "Cool Police"

The "Arbiters of Taste"

All vying for the "Alternative Badge Of Integrity"



Based on fear of exclusion and low self esteem.

[WhoisLevang]

Tower of Power - What Is Hip - 1973 - YouTube

[cosmic gumbo]

As an industry insider, Payton seems to be voicing his experience with the constraints and confusion that the jazz business creates with musicians and the audience. If jazz was still cool, all the kids would be eating it up. Real people want to party, and jazz used to be the best party music that a good musician could make, until bebop turned it into serious music. Hell, the history is about turning a funeral into a party! We know that something like grooving heavy electric new orleans funk can be jazz, but it's the furthest thing from the minds of the general public when you mention jazz.

[Dark Star]

Jazz isn't cool anymore? Why didn't someone tell me this before I invested all this time & money?

[AmundLauritzen]

Originally Posted by Philco

Ah yes the "Cool Police"

The "Arbiters of Taste"

All vying for the "Alternative Badge Of Integrity"



Based on fear of exclusion and low self esteem.

This. A hundred times this. Fuck the hipsters. They can keep their shit attitude to themselves, and let people enjoy the music they like.

I'll be playing standards on my archtop 'till they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[WhoisLevang]

How did the hipster burn the roof of his mouth?

He ate lasagna before it was cool...

edit- or is it "How did the hipster get burned?" I hate ruining a perfectly good joke...

[chrisg]

Its ironic that the term hipster originally described middle class white kids who were into jazz. But I suppose jazz was cool then.

[patskywriter]

i can expect a professional in almost any field to feel unappreciated and/or jaded. i, however, am and have always been, a huge jazz fan. it's always been cool to me—and at the risk of sounding self-centered—that's all that matters. i enjoy playing it, listening to it, and sharing it with others. i grew up on jazz. for me, it's a major part of life, like food and drink. if i were a professional jazz musician, i'd have to worry about such things as genre, market share, airplay, and whatnot. but i'm not, so i'm free to enjoy it with no worries—listening to the old stuff and looking forward to the new.

there's really nothing else to say. i love jazz and will always love it. nothing—not even a well-written poem, LOL, will ever change that.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Dark Star

Jazz isn't cool anymore? Why didn't someone tell me this before I invested all this time & money?

+1

[Jazzpunk]

Dear Mr. Payton,

Jazz will always be cool.

The only thing that died in 1959 were people who actually died in 1959.

Long live jazz.

[EightString]

I write my own music, and play others' music, for the express purpose of giving me and listeners some sort of pleasure.

At this time in my life, jazz music seems to give me more pleasure in general than other forms of music.

Listeners seem to universally enjoy this particular musical direction in my life as well, so it's a win/win.

So, quite frankly, other than those elements of my playing, singing, and songwriting that are part of my naturally evolving personal style, "innovation" isn't even on my radar, let alone trying to be "cool".

Of course, since I'm not actively seeking the approval of the local hipsters by being "edgy", I perversely seem to have it.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by patskywriter

i can expect a professional in almost any field to feel unappreciated and/or jaded. i, however, am and have always been, a huge jazz fan. it's always been cool to me—and at the risk of sounding self-centered—that's all that matters. i enjoy playing it, listening to it, and sharing it with others.

Actually, I think that's everything right there.

We talk about performance and connecting with an audience, which is important...but if it makes us happy, then why not?

You gotta look out for yourself too...I like playing in front of people, but I'll tell ya, if all I ever did was play for myself and my dog, I could still be happy...

[wizard3739]

Originally Posted by patskywriter
i can expect a professional in almost any field to feel unappreciated and/or jaded. i, however, am and have always been, a huge jazz fan. it's always been cool to me—and at the risk of sounding self-centered—that's all that matters. i enjoy playing it, listening to it, and sharing it with others.

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Actually, I think that's everything right there.

+1 Mr. B & Patsky!

wiz

[patskywriter]

if i actually knew mr payton, i'd tell him to stay away from music for a while, with the hope that he'll miss it and return to it gladly and with more appreciation. even though he's a day-in, day-out professional, he might be surprised to find that he's taking music for granted. it might benefit him and us as well. there's nothing more dull than listening to a tired, jaded musician …

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by patskywriter

if i actually knew mr payton, i'd tell him to stay away from music for a while, with the hope that he'll miss it and return to it gladly and with more appreciation. even though he's a day-in, day-out professional, he might be surprised to find that he's taking music for granted. it might benefit him and us as well. there's nothing more dull than listening to a tired, jaded musician …

Amen!

[Marto]

I think as a poet Nick Payton makes a pretty good jazz musician
Jokes aside though I really admire his playing what ever label he decides to apply to it. But I think that calling something post modern New Orleans music is at least as limiting as calling it jazz.
If you want jazz to be cool you need to market it as cool and give it a cool image it is as simple as that.
And if you think jazz musicians do it tough try making a living as a poet

[cosmic gumbo]

Back in the golden days, even the kids in high school thought jazz was totally the coolest music ever. Face it, that ain't the case anymore.