"Why Jazz Isn't Cool Anymore"

[JohnW400]

If jazz is dead then why did 60 Minutes do a feature last night on a singer that sells out stadiums singing standards from the Great American Songbook?

I never heard of this guy , Michael Buble, before last night but I certain dig what he's doing. And let's not forget about people like Brian Setzer.

Maybe this stuff is not jazz to Payton but it certainly bears more than just a passing resemblance to it.


So .... not quite dead yet, even to the masses.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Marto

If you want jazz to be cool you need to market it as cool and give it a cool image it is as simple as that.

In my opinion, the attempt to market jazz as cool and to give it a cool image, caused jazz to lose favor among that relatively small percentage of the population who have the ears and taste to be potential "consumers" of jazz.

"Cool" is off putting to people who think for themselves to any degree. "Cool" turns into a booze and drug addled old git who falls out of palm trees on his head. "Cool" is playing octaves haltingly with lots of clangors while wearing sunglasses that prevent glancing at the lead sheet (which isn't "cool" to have anyway). "Cool" is calling everyone cats when deigning to speak at all, and trying unsuccessfully to get in the pants of a woman young enough to be a daughter or grand daughter. "Cool" is never appearing to really enjoy playing jazz. "Cool" is bitching about having to work a day job to support your hobby.

"Cool" pisses people off. If they're dumb asses, they resent the "cool" guy for being more "cool" than they can be.

If they're not dumb asses themselves, they're often as irritated as they are amused by the spectacle of yet another kid trying to be "cool," and truly disgusted at the sight of some old bastard who didn't grow up and still tries to be "cool."

[patskywriter]

Originally Posted by cjm

… "Cool" is off putting to people who think for themselves to any degree. "Cool" turns into a booze and drug addled old git who falls out of palm trees on his head. "Cool" is playing octaves haltingly with lots of clangors while wearing sunglasses that prevent glancing at the lead sheet (which isn't "cool" to have anyway). "Cool" is calling everyone cats when deigning to speak at all, and trying unsuccessfully to get in the pants of a woman young enough to be a daughter or grand daughter. "Cool" is never appearing to really enjoy playing jazz. "Cool" is bitching about having to work a day job to support your hobby. …

there are too many variables for us to agree on what "cool" really means. we've all had different experiences and reference points. for me, art farmer, red garland, and oscar moore were "cool" the same way my dad was—reliable, tasteful, supportive, and unobtrusive while standing out at the same time. "cool" is something you shouldn't have to work at, otherwise it's not really cool. (and if you do have to work at it, it shouldn't be apparent.) if you have to worry about being cool, you probably won't achieve it.

i can't rely on other people, certainly not the media (and i'm a member!), to tell me what's cool. thinking people can decided for themselves, and if they discover jazz along the way, cool.

[Marto]

Originally Posted by cjm

"Cool" is off putting to people who think for themselves to any degree.

I am not trying to argue that jazz should be made "cool" to the majority of people. Just that if you want large groups of people to think something is cool you need to market it as cool.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Marto

I am not trying to argue that jazz should be made "cool" to the majority of people. Just that if you want large groups of people to think something is cool you need to market it as cool.

I understand what you are saying now. I just don't think that marketing alone could do the job. You would also have to cheapen the product by stripping it of intellectual and artistic content...and then it is no longer jazz.

[Marto]

Originally Posted by cjm

I understand what you are saying now. I just don't think that marketing alone could do the job. You would also have to cheapen the product by stripping it of intellectual and artistic content...and then it is no longer jazz.

I think you are right about that. You probably would have to change the properties of the music fit the image.

[AmundLauritzen]

Originally Posted by Marto

I think you are right about that. You probably would have to change the properties of the music fit the image.

It would be all triads, no syncopation, rock grooves, verse-chorus-bridge, and a self absorbed front man whose image is more important than his music. It'd be pop music with a different name.

I like it the way it is. In clubs, you can usually count the audience on one hand and get to listen to some good music. I don't think you can get the same experience in a big venue. As players however, it'd certainly be nice to have a steady income so we can pay that rent and avoid malnutrition and the other plagues that are a result of a jazz musicians poverty.

[markf]

I read that. I don't get it.

I heard him play a few years ago. sounded pretty jazzy to me. and, the music was outstanding.

[Stevebol]

Jazz isn't cool anymore? Thank gaud. Now I have a reason to practice more.

[jass5188]

Interesting points of view in this thread.

My own experience is: if not using standard jazz repertoire and not playing in a "straight ahead jazz" way, a majority of the audience and the management of the clubs don't consider the music "real" jazz.

The consequence: I don't call my music jazz anymore and I try to find other venues where I can play music.

[Stevebol]

Originally Posted by FrankBlack

A recent, provocative poem by Nicholas Payton called "Why Jazz Isn't Cool Anymore" has sparked a minor conversation on the Interwebs. As a devout non-Facebook user, I've neither seen nor read any of the conversations, but there is also a somewhat tangential response to those conversations by Ian Carey.

I understand Payton's thinking even though I don't fully agree with his evaluation. We all have our own perspective on music and art and artists. I often feel that jazz guitarists, somewhat like classical guitarists, are prisoners of history rather than artists freed by their musical ancestors. I also feel they tend to be victims of "the market". This causes the endless conga lines of performers playing a set list remarkably similar to each other's over and over and over. The echoes of "On Green Dolphin Street" never seem to stop bouncing off the walls of clubs (same goes for "Recuerdos De La Alhambra" for classical cats). Thumbing through jazz albums makes you very familiar with the names of a modest repertoire.

Having said that, there are many guitarists making fresh and innovative art in all genres. So, while Payton's thoughts are well-taken and the various responses are equally valid, I also know that jazz is a seed planted in some that springs up into the strangest and most wonderful thing.

If nothing else, conflict loosens the rust and shakes off the dust.

OK, I read Payton's poem again carefully. I like it and there's nothing wrong with having some pride in the music of New Orleans. I didn't get the whole hip/cool thing but I'm a dork so whatever.
Payton is being honest and that's what counts. It's not quite Bukowski but it's pretty good.

Occupy jazz! That cracked me up.

[fumblefingers]

i read the so-called "poem" too, and found it distasteful. "jazz is a lie"? "America is a lie"? Occupy this and that?

WTF is this guy's problem? he just sounds like another bitter, disillusioned, loser.

maybe he should put his horn down, spin his crappy attempts at poetry into hip-hop and try to make some money that way. or perhaps he should give it up altogether, go to medical training school, learn to be a nurse's assistant and change bed pans.

[fumblefingers]

another thought after reading his race-obssessed follow-up rant.

i wonder how much he holds Disco creators and practitioners ("artists") accountable, how much he holds hip-hop artists accountable, and how much he holds Michael Jackson accountable for all the junk he hears when he turns on his radio?

to this guy, it seems that everything is white man's fault. others are not accountable in his mind.

[mr. beaumont]

Don't see this ending well later, so we'll end it now.