How important is guitar tone to your enjoyment of a song?

[AlsoRan]

Have you ever heard a song that was well-played and beautifully written but was turned off to listening because of the guitarist choice of tone? I know there are certain artists whose tone just does not do it for me.

Comments anyone?

[cjm]

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

Have you ever heard a song that was well-played and beautifully written but was turned off to listening because of the guitarist choice of tone? I know there are certain artists whose tone just does not do it for me.

Comments anyone?

I find the use of effects, particularly distortion (but not limited to distortion), off putting. Sometimes a touch of reverb -- if the room has no natural reverb -- is okay, but even there I usually prefer no reverb.

I also don't like the muddy tone of some contemporary players. I think we've gone overboard with the humbucker/flat wound/tone-control-rolled-off thing.

I like the bright clean sound of an amplified archtop and for me, the other stuff -- from mud to 1960's acid rock inspired wanking with distortion -- just detracts from the listening experience.

Yeah, I know, I know. But I think a lot of people like the idea of playing and listening to something they call jazz a lot more than they actually like playing and listening to jazz.

[cosmic gumbo]

I think tone is one of the things that makes us prefer one player over another. It's a matter of personal taste. Mike Stern has killer chops, but I cannot enjoy listening to him because of his tone.

[Banksia]

I'm not a tone Nazi. I've always liked Tal Farlow although he has never had the standard "jazz" tone. I'm more interested in the ideas expressed in the music. The one tone I find hard to take is Holdsworth's guitar synth tone. I wish he had just used a solid body with a bit of overdrive.

I also hate anything too syrupy but generally I find that players who rely too heavily on the smooth probably don't have many interesting musical ideas anyway.

[Space Pickle]

How important is guitar tone to your enjoyment of a song?

Not important to me at all.

[Kman]

It's the first thing a listener notices so it's very important. However, it's a very subjective thing.

[jmstritt]

It is hugely important. Getting a good tone is just as important as chops. If you have killer chops and bad tone nobody will want to listen to you. If you have killer tone and no chops people will still listen to you.

There are many players that I would enjoy more if they had a different tone. Mike Stern and his overly processed chorus/delay sound comes to mind, as does Grant Green's icepick sound. I like both of their lines, but with that tone it is hard to take in anything but small doses.

[mtierney]

I agree with Cosmic Gumbo about Mike Stern. I think that tone is often more important than playing (but hey, I listen to shoegaze and post-rock as much as I listen to jazz).

I find that I dislike most popular contemporary jazz guitarists because their tone is cheesey and/or tasteless. I think overdrive or gain is acceptable, but a lot of the big names like Scofield or Di Meola or Mike Stern or John McLaughlin just do it so badly. But this is starting to step into the tubes v. solid state argument for me, in which I'm greatly outnumbered in this forum......

My favorite trad jazz player is Jim Hall for his chording, phrasing, but most importantly his tone.

[mr. beaumont]

I can only think of a few records where the guitar playing is great but the tone is so disagreeable with me that I don't enjoy listening to it.

[hot ford coupe]

It's usually the chorus effect that turns me off. It's too swirly and sweet and it makes me nauseated. Back in 1991, I went to one of the last Dizzy Gillespie concerts before he passed. His guitarist played an ES 335 with heavy chorus and it made me sick. I just couldn't stomach the sound of traditional bebop with that sickly, swirly, sugary chorus. It ruined the concert for me because I had to expend so much effort tuning it out.

[oldskoolchop]

never considered it that way, but i dont think i have ever said i dont like that player because of tone, sure it is a part of the attraction to a certain player but i would say it is at the bottom of the list of things that would affect me negatively, usually if they play a style i enjoy with techniques i enjoy, and create music i enjoy generally i will enjoy the tone as well

its never other people tone that bothers me just mine

[JonnyPac]

A magazine for guitar players quotes the following typical sayings of Van Iterson: about the sound of his instrument ` I used to try all kinds of separate hi fi material but I know now that sound primarily comes from the fingers. At home I always practice without amplifiers. That way you’re forced to get the best out of your fingers.’

I like the idea that good tone is in your fingers and pick. There is more to it, of course, but that is where it should start, IMHO.

I use humbuckers + flatwounds + tone rolled off 90% and reverb/delay on my semi hollow guitar. I practice on an acoustic flat top steel string 90% of the time though.

[Jake Hanlon]

if I don't like the sound I'm getting, it's really hard to play freely.

[ronjazz]

Well, it's hard to make good music with bad tone, but it is entirely subjective, albeit still real. I'm fine with Stern, he has a concept and a style that is all his. It is very important, though, and I spend lots of time and money on getting a beautiful sound, something most nylon-string jazzers haven't done, from Charlie Byrd to Laurindo Almeida and beyond. It's not at all easy, but it is doable, and it causes repeat bookings and expanding audiences when they can hear your music instead of your guitar.

[Marto]

I can appreciate how well some one is playing even if I don't like their tone but I can't really enjoy it. I think players with great tone (and rhythm) have a certain authority in their playing that you can't get any other way.
If I where to list my five favourite jazz guitar tones though they would all be quite different.

[jayx123]

I think tone is important its part of your voice.

[Tom Karol]

Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon

if I don't like the sound I'm getting, it's really hard to play freely.

I agree entirely. And when my tone sounds great to me, I'm inspired to play better - and play fewer notes I might add. In a lot of ways, it matters more to the player than the listener.

I feel that on all instruments being in good tune, having good time, and having good tone (which of course is in the ear of the beholder) are all necessary prerequisites to producing good music.

[cjm]

From the perspective of a listener though, if tone was the primary criterion, since no two players will get precisely the same tone from the same gear, each of us would only have one or two guitar players we could enjoy (or even tolerate) listening to.

For example, Herb Ellis and Joe Pass both used the ES-175 extensively during their careers and both used some of the same model amplifiers at various times. Each got a different tone from basically the same kit, and both got tone generally deemed as acceptable and within the realm of "the jazz sound."

So it seems to me that once tone falls within "acceptable parameters" that it must take a distant second place to content. Using the examples of Herb Ellis and Joe Pass again, while each got a different tone from similar (and often, nearly identical) guitars and amps, the primary difference between their respective sounds was to be found in their differing tastes and senses of harmony, phrasing...style.

[jmstritt]

The biggest things that influence tone in my mind are the most overlooked, the string, the setup of the guitar, and touch.

You could have a beautiful ES-175, but if you string it up with roundwound 10s, and it has a buzz at different spots on the fretboard, you will sound terrible.

[AlsoRan]

What got me asking this question was a YouTube video of a young guy playing an improvisation of "Impressions" using a Gibson Explorer and heavy distortion. He got ripped pretty good in the comments section by many Jazz purists who got on him about the distortion.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

What got me asking this question was a YouTube video of a young guy playing an improvisation of "Impressions" using a Gibson Explorer and heavy distortion. He got ripped pretty good in the comments section by many Jazz purists who got on him about the distortion.

Yeah, that happens. A Rock purist takes on a jazz tune and posts it on Youtube and gets about the same reception as "Earl Scruggs and the Stones -- Together at Last!"

[jmstritt]

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

What got me asking this question was a YouTube video of a young guy playing an improvisation of "Impressions" using a Gibson Explorer and heavy distortion. He got ripped pretty good in the comments section by many Jazz purists who got on him about the distortion.

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[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

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[jster]

Over the years, I have had maybe a dozen different guitars, hollow, solid, acoustic, nylon, but I have settled on playing a nylon string guitar with a pick and I love the tone of that more than any other tone. I like acoustic instruments so much more than electric instruments anymore. Honestly, I feel like the most amazing electric tone--be it Scofield, or Frisell, or Santana, or Metheny with his three stage delay set-up, or whoever--falls far short of the tone of an acoustic instrument. The electric guitar buzz has long worn off and all that is left is the hangover.

But acoustic guitars are too tinny. And nylon string guitars can be too--what's the right way to put it--monochrome and soft.

Suppose a guitarist were to play with the current Wayne Shorter quartet. What would sound the best? That is the guitar tone I would want. And as far as I can tell, a nylon string with a pick comes closest!

How to amplify it to bring out the awesomeness of the tone I hear holding it is another matter.

[EightString]

I'll throw a name out there: Charlie Hunter. I'd probably enjoy him a heck of a lot more if his tone didn't so often sound unpleasant to my ears.

I watch him, I admire what he's doing both musically and technically, but I can't say I "enjoy" it.

[AlsoRan]

Charlie Hunter - Recess - YouTube

You got me curious enough to check him out. Interesting!

[EightString]

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

Charlie Hunter - Recess - YouTube

You got me curious enough to check him out. Interesting!

Oddly enough, that particular clip's guitar tone is a little less over processed than some of his other work, so it's a little more enjoyable for me.

[AlsoRan]

I see. I will check out some other ones.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by jster

Suppose a guitarist were to play with the current Wayne Shorter quartet. What would sound the best?

Interesting! I think that line of thinking is a great way to come up with tonal conclusions.

I just like the way you phrased that...instead of "I want to sound like wes/kurt/pat/pat/sco etc" it's "I want to be part of this specific type of musical experience"

And I think I look at it in a somewhat similar way. I guess the sound I try to go for is if Lennie Tristano and Joe Henderson had a baby and that baby learned how to play guitar real good. I don't make many equipment choices with that in mind, but articulation and setting choices for sure.

-

Anyway, to answer the original question, as a listener I'm not too picky about tone, but I might be the exception. I'm much more interested in the content of what somebody is playing, and if somebody has an unusual tone I might just go "oh, interesting decision" and want to listen further to maybe better understand that decision. I think a good guitarist can make any equipment/amp sound at least listenable by changing their touch. I play on my young students' mini-strats all the time, I love them!

AlsoRan, could you post the impressions clip? Playing with overdrive or even full on distortion in jazz isn't a huge turn off for me necessarily, for me it's more the phrasing, vocabulary, and especially articulation. Usually the people who are trying to play jazz tunes with metal tone often have a melodic sense (or lack thereof, hah!) that just doesn't work, for my ears, for the tune.

However, there's a guy...I don't remember his name...who plays this weird blend of gypsy jazz, metal, and bop, and does it with a distorted tone. It was years ago that I came across him on the net, and I remember really digging it but maybe my opinion would be different now. Anyway, he really had his shit together with vocabulary, rhythm, technique, etc, so it was kind of cool to listen to. (Anybody know who I might be talking about?)

[jtizzle]

Here's my view on this: I classify a player, not only guitar, but any instrument, on how good he is based on their tone more than their technique, except in some cases where the tone is on purpose. Scofield is part of this example, I hate his tone and I can't listen to his music for it, but he definitely is a great player.

But here's the thing, any guitarist can do some crazy fast and melodic playing, but it takes a person with dedication to play the same thing or even something easier with a greater tone. I take this classification further with instruments like trumpet and sax, because the guitar tone usually tends to be artificial, coming out of an amplifier.