How important is guitar tone to your enjoyment of a song?

[mtierney]

I agree with jtizzle almost too much right now.

Another thing that I was thinking about, now that this thread is alive again, a lot of the people that posted here that say that tone doesn't matter are the same people that would argue to their death that solid state is better than tube, or vice-versa. I don't want to have the tube v. solid state argument all over again, because both sides have well established pros and cons; I also don't mean to sound condescending if it's coming off that way. But if you don't care about tone, then why does it matter what amp you're using? This question can be taken to some extremes and I don't mean it to come out as a "sell your Henricksen/Polytone/Mesa/Twin/whatever else for a Fender 15R!" type of deal, but I think you'll all know what I mean by this question...

Thanks, just curious what everyones thoughts are, because like I said before, I care almost way too much about tone.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by jtizzle

But here's the thing, any guitarist can do some crazy fast and melodic playing, but it takes a person with dedication to play the same thing or even something easier with a greater tone.

I don't understand this. It seems to me that it takes dedication to be melodic and have good technique. To have good tone also means to have good technique, clear intentional articulation. But a big factor of tone is equipment. So it takes a person with dedication to research and buy nice equipment and that's more impressive to you than technique or melodic sensibilities? I'm a little confused at that.

Originally Posted by mtierney

...say that tone doesn't matter are the same people that would argue to their death that solid state is better than tube, or vice-versa.

Well the question I answered wasn't "do you care about tone" but rather "how important is guitar tone to your enjoyment of a song?"...which was the actual question. My answer is: not all that important, which isn't the same as "not at all important" or "it doesn't matter."

And you won't see me arguing about solid body vs archtop, solid state vs tube, thick strings vs thin, blah blah blah. So I think your comment here is a bit off base.

I care about tone, just probably less than most guitarists. I always run into other guitarists with $4K guitars who are mediocre players, and maybe some of those cats spend more time researching gear than playing. More power to them if those are there priorities - everybody is different and it's not a value judgement. I personally like the content, the notes, and I do like to have gear that allows me to communicate those notes with passable tone, but it's a pretty minimal affair. As I get out and gig more I'll probably upgrade, but it just doesn't concern me all that much. I'll spend more time on dynamics, touch, pick angles, etc, than researching gear.

[jtizzle]

In that case I'm referring more to the clarity and technique of the guitarist, this actually would again apply to an instrument like the trumpet where technique comes out of your lips, but even on guitar, if you give the two kids the same guitar, make it an acoustic guitar so there is no amp factored into the equation, and give them the same lick to play. Someone with better technique, not necessarily speed, will make the lick sound better. More influential than speed is the attack on the string, even the placement of the attack. The accents, the fretting hand and how it's pressing on the frets. Speed will help the passage come out cleaner, but I know countless kids who have tons of speed but can't even keep time to save their lives.

It's something like that

[cjm]

Originally Posted by mtierney

I agree with jtizzle almost too much right now.

Another thing that I was thinking about, now that this thread is alive again, a lot of the people that posted here that say that tone doesn't matter are the same people that would argue to their death that solid state is better than tube, or vice-versa. I don't want to have the tube v. solid state argument all over again, because both sides have well established pros and cons; I also don't mean to sound condescending if it's coming off that way. But if you don't care about tone, then why does it matter what amp you're using? This question can be taken to some extremes and I don't mean it to come out as a "sell your Henricksen/Polytone/Mesa/Twin/whatever else for a Fender 15R!" type of deal, but I think you'll all know what I mean by this question...

Thanks, just curious what everyones thoughts are, because like I said before, I care almost way too much about tone.

I don't think anyone really said that tone is of no importance -- I know I didn't.

Rather, I think what you're reading here is that for many -- certainly for myself -- once the guitarist's tone is within the realm of "the jazz tone" (which has considerable variety), tone then takes a back seat to content.

For example, I think the tone on Hank Garland's jazz recordings was often a bit too treble and they got maybe too excited by the plate reverb...but the content was superb.

For another example, I think Howard Alden usually has too much of a muddy-humbucker-with-the-tone-pot-rolled-off sound...but again, the content he provides is almost always superb.

If the knobs were cranked a bit differently, I would like both examples better, but both are within the "nexus" of "the jazz sound" and so what each plays is more important to me than the tonal qualities of guitar and amplifier.

But if it gets too trashy...if Jimmy Bruno decides Malmsteen has the perfect tone, then I'm going to stop listening to Jimmy Bruno.

[mtierney]

Mmm I knew I could have phrased it wrong...

Sorry for the confusion, and I didn't mean to set you off, JakeAcci. I didn't mean not care about tone, which is where the part of my comment about how extreme my post could be taken with the 15R analogy was. I meant more that if it isn't so important as playing then I feel like a lot of gear endorsement or selectiveness should be put on the backburner so to speak.

In a lot of ways though, like jtizzle just said, so much of the tone comes from the technique that there's a lot of crossover as to which is more important, technique or tone. For example, Jake, spending time on dynamics and touch are technical improvements, but they're just as much tone improvements. We're pointing out something similar, that gear lusting isn't as prevalent like that.

It's just weird from my standpoint, because I do care (probably too much) about my tone other than just what comes from technique (like touch, dynamics, etc) and I feel like it returns well, because I play better when I have a better tone (to my ears) because in some weird way it's inspiring to me. I don't know if anyone else gets that impression, but I was using this little Roland blues cube for a few weeks between when I sold an amp and got a new one and I hated it and found that I couldn't play as well.

I guess I'm not really arguing anything so much as observing how foreign it is to me how differently everyone sees it. Again, I don't/didn't mean to come off condescending, or as if none of you care about tone at all even a little bit. That was my mistake for coming off that way originally.

Also, I read a pretty relevant Miles Davis quote about tone the other day:

"I've practiced my tone for almost 50 years, and if I can't hear my tone, I can't play. If I can't play, then I won't get paid. If I don't get paid, then I lose the house, you know?

It's like a chain reaction. If I lose my tone, I can't f__k, can't make love, can't do nothin'. I'll just walk into the ocean and die, if I lose my tone."

Silly, and relevant.

[AlsoRan]

[quote=JakeAcci;183933]

AlsoRan, could you post the impressions clip? Playing with overdrive or even full on distortion in jazz isn't a huge turn off for me necessarily, for me it's more the phrasing, vocabulary, and especially articulation.



JA, It has been around four years since I saw that young guy on YouTube playing "Impressions." I did a thorough search and could not find it. I think the poor guy took it down, especially considering the comments he was getting.

On another note, I can really appreciate your lack of prejudice in music and your open-mindedness.

I, on the other hand, do have a problem with some jazz artists' use of distortion. I think that when I want to hear a distorted guitar, I put in a Hard Rock or Heavy Metal CD.

The same goes for classical music. I just would not like someone including a section of Flying Vs, hooked up through Metal Zone pedals, in their orchestra.

[JakeAcci]

I like when some of the modern guys turn on a bit of gain.

[Drumbler]

I hooked my guitar up to my brother-in-laws Fender Deluxe over the holidays.

Oh sweet tone!

[Dark Star]

I recently listened to Joe Pass on Virtuoso. I thought it sounded like he was playing a cheap guitar.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by Dark Star

I recently listened to Joe Pass on Virtuoso. I thought it sounded like he was playing a cheap guitar.

Pass can sound a bit harsh sometimes.

Virtuoso is him using a pick (I think but not positive).