7 String Players Here--Any?

[Atticus]

I struggle enough trying to mute extra strings with six- I don't need another one to throw me off!

In fairness, I understand the appeal of the extra notes. That's why I have a five-string bass (though I've been using my old four a lot more lately because the set-up is less temperamental than my 5er). The low Eb and D in particular are nice on a bass. If you play solo guitar or in a small group with no bassist or pianist/organist/other form of keys, I could understand the desire, but I'd rather have somebody play the low end and stick to fleshing out the chords. Being a long-time bassist, I'd hate to think I was putting a bassist out of work by trying to multi-task.

[ronjazz]

Well, I went to 7-string because of the lack of good bassists, originally, but now, it's just my instrument. I'm not trying to put anyone out of work, but the musical concepts I use for the 7-string nylon have to do with orchestrations, transparency, and the ability to be completely free, harmonically. I conceptualize as a duo for bass and guitar, rather than a piano, and my groups range from duos with percussion or horn or singer, or a combination of same. I also sing a few tunes, some in Brazilian Portugese, some in Spanish, one in Italian, and the 7-string allows me to play harmonies that I want behind my singing, and to keep the groove or change it as I feel it. It's, in a way, a little like playing organ, and those folks are indeed putting bass players out of work, but those are the breaks. DJs have been putting me out of work for decades, and I'm still here, playing guitar for a living.

[Four2theBar]

.... Just got my first 7 string. Playing this guitar is a wonderful experience but definitely requires some adjustment. I think that solid finger style technique is a must to yield t he deepest benefits from a jazz 7 stringer.

[ronjazz]

Now that is a beautiful 7-string, Trenier makes superb instruments!

A good right-hand technique is important to get the most of the 7. You might want to take a few lessons from a good classical guitarist just for basics, and then work up a couple of the Barry Galbraith arrangements with added bass notes where appropriate. As I've stated before, it's also easier to get comfortable with the 7-string if you play a little every night in the dark, so your eyes don't confuse your brain. Bossas are the easiest way into the actual bass-playing aspect of the 7.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I mentioned this is an another thread so I hope this doesn't count as spamming, but J Hale music has a used Eastman El Rey ER1-7 for sale at $1,400.



Might be a nice way to enter the 7-string world.

[Four2theBar]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Now that is a beautiful 7-string, Trenier makes superb instruments!

A good right-hand technique is important to get the most of the 7. You might want to take a few lessons from a good classical guitarist just for basics, and then work up a couple of the Barry Galbraith arrangements with added bass notes where appropriate. As I've stated before, it's also easier to get comfortable with the 7-string if you play a little every night in the dark, so your eyes don't confuse your brain. Bossas are the easiest way into the actual bass-playing aspect of the 7.

Yeah the Trenier Excel 7 is a wonderful instrument and Bryant is a fine fella to work with!

Thanks for the playing advice. Fortunately, I've already studied Classical Guitar formally for 5 years and much Jazz as well. My finger style technique is pretty good, but I do need a lot more work before I'll be playing fast fluid Bop lines finger style.

I love your idea of playing in the dark. I'm already sight reading Leavitt etudes and studies without looking at the guitar.

[EightString]

hi.

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I mentioned this is an another thread so I hope this doesn't count as spamming, but J Hale music has a used Eastman El Rey ER1-7 for sale at $1,400.



Might be a nice way to enter the 7-string world.

That looks like my guitar (I got mine from J Hale Music in a trade, also). I love this guitar! The only thing I'm going to change is to swap out the factory made KA for a hand-wound Kent Armstrong. I also put strap locks on it--this guitar has a Johnny Smith scale (25") which, given its small size, otherwise, makes it a tad neck -heavy.

One collateral effect of spending time with a 7 string--makes playing a 6 string easier. If you can master the extra reaches required on a bigger neck (2 1/16"), going back to a 6 string is a piece of cake.

I had the pleasure of attending Howard Alden's master class at the Old Town School of Folk Music recently, and there is one thing/concept I've been trying to cement, after talking to him-- a kind of "string division of labor"--(he often forgoes the 5ths)

Strings 1 and 2: the melody notes
Strings 3, 4, and 5: the guide tones
Strings 6 and 7: the root progression--string 7 is really string 5, but an octave below.

Thus, if I'm playing notes on the 1st two strings, I always need to know where the 3rds and 5ths are in the bass (either in relation to that particular note, or the chord associated with that particular note).


Everyone should learn to play a 7 string--it'll make your melody notes really stand out that much more, because you can actually play music as written, withe the appropriate separation between bass and treble notes.

[jtizzle]

Does anyone own a Matt Raines 7 string? I'd like to know how good those are, I'm looking to buy one of his $1850 models, so if anyone could give some good insight on those I'd appreciate it.

[Four2theBar]

Originally Posted by jtizzle

Does anyone own a Matt Raines 7 string? I'd like to know how good those are, I'm looking to buy one of his $1850 models, so if anyone could give some good insight on those I'd appreciate it.

You might want to read this entire thread. Others have already commented.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Four2theBar

You might want to read this entire thread. Others have already commented.

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Glad I'm not alone in this experience. I had really bad experience with my 7, sharp fret ends, a truss rod that didn't have enough thread, electronics wired reverse, bad fretting that needed to be leveled. It cost me hundreds to try to get it right, and once the weather changed and I tried to pull the neck back to straight, that's when I found out there weren't enough threads, the rod had bottomed out. Guess what? Every single penny wasted. Response? Silence.
Friend I know got a Raines, like a hollow les paul, looked great. End studs on the stop tailpiece started pulling out. I guess there wasn't enough wood to anchor them in. Knobs on the pots fell off, again the electronics were such low quality the metal on the shafts was soft and couldn't fit the knobs. Fret and machine problems with his too. He said his customer support was non existent after 1 email. There was quite a time difference between our purchases, more than enough time for Raines to have addressed at least the fret problems with his builders, but for whatever reason the same problems remained.
It would seem the record on these guitars cannot be called a safe bet. I'm still burning.
David

Yeah, search through the search function on this forum. You'll see it's a mixed bag. Bottom line, Raines gets his guitars from China and though the value he brings them in at is exceptional, he does no prep on them, something that every major name considers a given. They come in rough and maybe you don't mind. You hit an instrument that, say Ibanez, would've sent back, and it's yours. Your Raines, shiny and wonky with fret ends that will shred your fingers. My experience and increasing opinion as I've worked on more examples since my last posting.
David

[Four2theBar]

I have a 6 string Eastman that's not bad but could have been set up better. I did not buy it from J. Hale, but wish now that I would have because his Eastmans are professionally set up including fret leveling.

I believe he can you into a new Eastman 7-string in the low 2K range.

[Dookychase]

Jtizzle, search youtube for a guy named Randy Hebert. He has several videos playing fingerstyle. Some with his Foster St.Charles model and a some with a Raines archtop. Both are 7 string guitars.

I spoke to him several months ago about the Raines and he said he loved it and had no issues with the guitar. He's a really nice guy. He lives outside of New Orleans in a town called Mandeville.

If you can't reach him through his youtube channel, let me know. I have his email address and phone number.

Speaking of Raines, I love the natural finish archtop on his webpage. Very tempting.

[jtizzle]

I knoww, I'm just trying to get a bit more insight than one comment
I've been doing google and can't find much on it.

I'm looking for a full body archtop, I know Eastman makes them but the El Rey I saw does not have the f holes I'm looking for on a guitar. And these are the only guitars I've seen. What if I were to buy one of these and get it completely set up?

I also live about an hour away from the Sadowsky warehouse in Long Island, I was thinking about calling them and seeing if they know people who can make them for around that price, or if they can.

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by paynow

People who play them have told me you have to learn it like an entirely new instrument. I've always been intrigued.

I played one for years and I very much disagree with that notion. Tuned to a low A (which is the most common tuning among jazz players), it's just a replacement for the standard A string. Go through all the chords you know that have their lowest note on the A string and transplant them two strings lower. The potential goes far beyond that but it's really all it takes to get started.

i would also suggest that for anyone interested in trying 7-string, start by buying an inexpensive used guitar, even if it's a rock guitar. You're just trying to get an opportunity to do some hands on experimenting to see if you can get comfortable with a 7-string, so the tone and design don't really matter much. You can usually find a functional Schecter or Ibanez hard tail for $350 or less. If you decide you want a better guitar or that 7-string is not your cup of tea, then you can almost certainly get most if not all of that back if you sell it. So it's pretty much a free method of finding out of 7-string works for you.

[jtizzle]

Ok I think I found the 7 string I want. Eastman Jazz 16 7 string. Anyone have any knowledge of this guitar?

[ronjazz]

The Eastman 16" 7s are generally really nice guitars, albeit with rather sensitive finish work and the tendency to feed back at higher volumes. You might see if you can find one that's fairly thin, like 2.5 inches, to lessen the feedback problem.

[packM65W]

that's gonna be a while down the road...

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

The Eastman 16" 7s are generally really nice guitars, albeit with rather sensitive finish work and the tendency to feed back at higher volumes. You might see if you can find one that's fairly thin, like 2.5 inches, to lessen the feedback problem.

There was a thin 16 that was made for Lou at Guitars 'n Jazz in Summit NJ. I got one there. Set in Kent Armstrong pickup, solid top and very thin. The neck is thin and wide, wider than most, and fast. I replaced the PU with a Duncan. It is still prone to some feedback but a very functional instrument. I like it.
Why all Chinese guitars, Eastman included, insist on using inferior electronics, micky mouse pots, wiring appropriate for toys, pickups that don't sound like their American counterparts, I don't know. But there it is.
David

[ronjazz]

I think, realistically, that one must consider many of the Asian-built guitars as "unfinished furniture", where a significant savings is realized, but also a significant investment of time, energy and materials to reach a satisfying, "finished" result. Certainly when dealing with "acoustic" instruments, anyway. I know that most Ibanez guitars are fully-finished, and I have purchased a few from the Samick factory that needed only minor tweaks, but often the savings realized in the initial purchase price is made possible by cheap electronics and hardware. I just bought a Bartolex nylon-string 7-string, which was about $1550. I have since invested another $1000 in it, replacing the electronics and working on the setup. It's almost where it needs to be, and will eventually equal a $5000 luthier-made instrument, for an overall investment of $3000. It is very good-looking and sounds excellent, and each improvement brings it closer to the "ideal" I have in my head. In any event, one really cannot expect Dom Perignon on a Miller Lite budget.

[NSJ]

I still plan on replacing my factory "Kent Armstrong" pickup on my 7 string El Rey for a hand wound Kent Armstrong.


When I went to buy my El Rey from Jeff Hale, I got to play his, which had a hand wound Kent Armstrong--and it made a HUGE difference.

I guess the factory wound Kent Armstrongs are made in Korea or something. He just licenses his name, I presume. The one's he actually produces, the hand wounds, sound much better.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by ronjazz

I think, realistically, that one must consider many of the Asian-built guitars as "unfinished furniture", where a significant savings is realized, but also a significant investment of time, energy and materials to reach a satisfying, "finished" result.

Here you have hit upon the truth of the matter. You put the "finishing" facility in the states and you've got a potent product. I know of a few doing just this. I worked in Ibanez Bensalem, Pa and it was precisely this, bringing Asian product up to American consumer standard. Eastman does this. It's necessary. The market is geared towards the bargain hunter. The professional, though appreciative of a good deal, exists with a different set of priorities.
That's it.
David

[renato13]

In my country, people play 7-strings all the time. We have some quite interesting guitarists in 7. Although many of them aren't jazz guitarists, but just some traditional local music. But, I suggest for you guys to take a look at Raphael Rabello's work into some brazillian songs, especially in bossa nova.

[ronjazz]

Renato, Raphael Rabello is certainly the best 7-string player to have appeared so far. Young Yamandu may catch up as he matures; he certainly has all the technique he needs, and his most recent Youtube videos are showing a nice maturity developing.