Evaluating your performance at a gig

[keith]

I suspect that many of you have been through this already so I'm looking for some feedback on how you resolved this issue if you have. The scenario is that you're playing in a small combo at a gig and things in your opinion just don't seem right; the tempo is dragging at times, the bassist and drummer are not listening and playing over the vocalist or soloist, the sound system is unbalanced and feeding back, arrangements that were practiced are disregarded during the gig; you know the list goes on and on... but the funny thing is folks in the audience tell you how good you sound and the gig sponsors are happy the way the event is going so they're happy with the music and even some bandmates are happy because of the response they're getting, all the while you think things are going to hell in a handbasket and you're embarrassed to be associated with it! Assume that this is not a one time event and that each time you leave the gig with this feeling. I suspect most responses will be that everyone is happy so shut up and suck it up but then you're in a situation where you're accepting mediocrity ( at least in your own eyes and ears ) Any suggestions on resolving this?

[fep]

If the audience is happy with the music then to me the primary objective has been met.

But, I'd still want to rehearse and get those problem issues ironed out. But I wouldn't go all 'Buddy Rich' on your band mates, life is to short for that.

[hot ford coupe]

Wow, this is one tough question. There are quite a few variables in play here. Are you the leader or just a side man? Do you depend heavily on gigging for financial reasons? Are the gig sponsors really listening very critically or are they busy with other concerns? Are you getting hired back by the same people and clubs? What kind of gigs are you playing? What else is there around that the audience can get involved with? These are some of the questions that need to be asked because the solution depends on the particular combination of variables.

I've been in this situation myself years ago when I gigged as a bass player and my son has recently been there too. Like I said, I think alot of it depends on what kind of gig you're playing. I played the typical wedding/bar mitzvah/ restaurant situations, no big whoop. I didn't play with a regular band but was a pickup player with several different combos so I wasn't the leader. My conclusion there was that people were so busy with what was going on around them, conversing, getting plastered etc. that they weren't able to be critical listeners and the booboos would go unnoticed. Also, people we played for weren't that familiar with jazz and music in general and really couldn't hear it the way you would have which was lucky for us. In that situation, I really wouldn't care that much because 1. it wasn't my band and 2. we were still getting gigs by referrals. I just sucked it up and did my best.

Now on the other hand, one gig we played was a block party in good old Greenwich Village where the folks were A LOT more jazz savvy. There, we had to be spot on or else we'd look pretty stupid. Fortunately, that one was with the good band so there was no problem.

In the first situation above, 1. if I weren't the leader, it really bugged and embarrassed me and my survival didn't depend on these guys, I just wouldn't work with them anymore. If I really needed the money, or I really just wanted to play (or both), I wouldn't care and I'd just do it. The more I play, the more time I get to put on the instrument. Same thing if I were the leader. It wouldn't be worth the conflict but I'd probably be looking for other band members on the side.

In the second situation where your reputation is at stake, I would think a little differently. Again, you have 2 choices. if I weren't the leader, the audience was happy and I still was getting gigs, who cares. If I were the leader, I might just play tough guy and try to get them to conform until I exhausted all my options. Then I'd be looking for some new guys, maybe.

If, in the second situation, my reputation and my finances were at stake and the gigs never went well, I'd be looking for some new bandmates whether or not I was the leader and whether or not I really needed the cash. This situation, by itself will result in a lot fewer gigs and thus directly reflect heavily on my musical and financial future.

I hope my opinions will help you somewhat. I would also seek, like you're doing now, the opinons of the really experienced guys here. Mine is only one teeny opinion.

[paynow]

Good advice here. Just remember, not everything is Carnegie Hall, or even the VFW Hall for that matter.

[keith]

Thanks for the replies. These situations I've described are not our bread and butter and for me are primarily for enjoyment and improvement as a musician although we played one upscale fundraiser and one of the guys wanted to put a tip jar out which was somewhat counterproductive to improving ones image. Sure all of us like to be rewarded but it seems to me if you wish to be treated as a professional you need to act as one and wait for the delayed gratification in some circumstances. Then again maybe I'm being too critical. I like the " Buddy Rich" analogy.

You know my impression is that most if not all of your audience really doesn't pay much attention to how you play, maybe what you play but not arrangements, balance etc. except the musicians who generally ARE listening for those aspects among other things ( just because that's what we do when we listen ). They really are a mirror of your own expectations of yourself even if they don't say a word to you about it.

For those of you that stayed on the more pragmatic course of accepting it for the gigs do you think it has had an impact on you improving as a musician? Maybe you don't care as long there's work but just curious if you thought it had any effect musically on you?

[hot ford coupe]

We used to fool around on certain gigs when we pretty much figured no one was really listening. We'd change the lyrics of some of the standards. Anyone really listening would be turning red and highly incensed or on the floor laughing their heads off. We never saw either one and never had a complaint from the hall staff or the audience, but we had a blast. The people would say you guys looked like you were really having fun playing.

[cosmic gumbo]

It might be a reflection on the type of musicians you play with. You sound like the only one involved that has higher expectations for the situation.

[keith]

Well I'm not sure about higher expectations ( being fair that's a matter of perspective ) but they seem to be different. There is no true leader to the group so I think you're correct that there is not one set of expectations that prevails at all times. The age old issue of aligning expectations to reality. I guess I just need to stay focused more on my playing and progressing and not on the group as a whole. Not exactly my idea of jazz.

[Reg]

If you have better gigs... move on. You don't get better at playing gigs with out playing... If you don't... start looking. I've politely moved on many times...but I've always had other gigs... My point is the skills of playing gigs take work, just as technical drills etc... Reg

[paynow]

Originally Posted by keith

Thanks for the replies. These situations I've described are not our bread and butter and for me are primarily for enjoyment and improvement as a musician although we played one upscale fundraiser and one of the guys wanted to put a tip jar out which was somewhat counterproductive to improving ones image. Sure all of us like to be rewarded but it seems to me if you wish to be treated as a professional you need to act as one and wait for the delayed gratification in some circumstances. Then again maybe I'm being too critical. I like the " Buddy Rich" analogy.

At fundraiser: No. In a bar or restaurant: Why not? And make sure to bait it with a $20.

I don't get the impression you're going "BR" on anyone, and after having heard those tapes many times, and also reading some stories about them, I'm now convinced that it wasn't just him; those guys f--ked up and didn't want to own up to it. That being said, his bedside manner leaves a lot to be desired. Though, in interviews, he's great. Funny as hell. A major talent.

Originally Posted by keith

You know my impression is that most if not all of your audience really doesn't pay much attention to how you play, maybe what you play but not arrangements, balance etc. except the musicians who generally ARE listening for those aspects among other things ( just because that's what we do when we listen ). They really are a mirror of your own expectations of yourself even if they don't say a word to you about it.

Very true.

Originally Posted by keith

For those of you that stayed on the more pragmatic course of accepting it for the gigs do you think it has had an impact on you improving as a musician? Maybe you don't care as long there's work but just curious if you thought it had any effect musically on you?

No. Sometimes it helps. My Dad was a pro and he used to say "You have to play with a band band to know what it's like to play with a good one."

[keith]

Yeah I'd agree with your Dad although even with a not so good band there are times when everything is clicking and you know it, you can just feel it, it brings a smile to your face. That's what I'm looking for, not the times where everyone is doing their own thing, not listening and you just roll your eyes to the back of your head and say to yourself " F--k me "

[paynow]

Originally Posted by keith

Yeah I'd agree with your Dad although even with a not so good band there are times when everything is clicking and you know it, you can just feel it, it brings a smile to your face. That's what I'm looking for, not the times where everyone is doing their own thing, not listening and you just roll your eyes to the back of your head and say to yourself " F--k me "

I hear you. I agree; but just stay on your path and you'll find that.

More than 20 years ago I used to jam a a club that was razed to widen an intersection. That's a good thing; the intersection sounds much better than that jam did.

There was a sax player there who was awful. He used to get so much work. Master of self-promotion. Not a bad guy, but oh man. No concept. No tone. Horn never in tune. Every time I'd comp for him I would see a goat, because that's what it sounded like. A goat being tazed. He would mail out postcards (no internet then) and get some really high society type work; weddings, fundraisers for some wealthy folks.

He'd hire me, which I was grateful for, and people seemed to dig it, which I could never figure as a musician but which goes back to your comment about people not knowing. We would also do lounge type gigs where no one gave a f--k and he could play anything, and did, much of it really bad. Had we made a record it would have been called "Awful Attempts At Rhythm Changes In The Lounge At Tony's Pizzeria".

The bass player was great. And I asked him why he took the gig, being so good, and his response was "Because I enjoy eating." Like you I really hated it and wanted to say something, but needed the work, I took the job knowing full well what it would be like, and also, didn't want to vibe the guy and hurt his feelings. Eventually he didn't work as much, and I moved on.

The bassist taught me how to fit in that type of situation and make it sound better, which was invaluable. I learned something else; He would always wear sunglasses in these dark, dimly lit lounges. When I asked why he said "Because it sucks and I need to keep my eye on the owner so he doesn't try to escape without paying us. I don't want him to know I'm watching." Just like this: . With that kind of expression too. I think he may have had an eye problem but I loved the answer he gave.

You're on the right path. Don't let 'em get ya!

[keith]

Great stories! Thanks

[markf]

yeah great stories.

some players are just slobs who don't care about even the basics, like being in tune. horrible to play with people like that.

There are some good players that are able to lift others, not as good, up a level.

a combination of demanding something from the other players, in different ways, by example, by discussing it, by intimidation, glaring, being rude,

seems to work for some guys, but you have to have the personality for it.

I once played in a club with a quartet, the drummer was a serious, highly skilled jazz player. during an extremely painful rendition of "let it be", he had enough, did some loud snare/symbol stuff, a press roll or something, bang, crash, boom, and then quit playing in the middle of the tune. the leader kept going, but the drummer did not.

I fell off my stool I was laughing so hard.


are they willing to get together to rehearse? not too many people want to do that these days but it makes a huge difference.

[stratcat33511]

record the show
evaluate the next day