How Do You Tune Your Guitar?

[Kojo27]

I actually bought a stethoscope the other day – I’ll leave the rest to your imagination, but it does let me hear certain things much better.

Yep, I’m a tuning freak. Can never get it to the point that something doesn’t sound a little out -- or a lot out, depending on I don't know what... And I still haven’t determined when enough is enough, or exactly how to “standardize” my tuning process -- other than tune to a good electronic tuner and accept that as the way my guitar will sound from now on, so get used to it.

Do you guys have any insights, opinions, ah-ha moments, or anything tuning-related you’d mind sharing?

[caravan]

Hey, I have several stethoscopes! I'll have to try that sometime. Anyway, I use a 440 tuning fork for "A" on the high string, then the rest I do by ear. Sometimes I'll simply pluck a string on someone else's guitar and just tune mine to his.

[Dad3353]

Never had the problem; mine was in tune when I bought it...

[robertm2000]

How I tune mine -

top E-tuning fork or tuner

-Next three strings, unison or octave top E
bottom E, 4th harmonic, 5th fret
A string, 3rd harmonic, 7th fret
D string, first E fretted at second fret

G string open, tune to 3rd fret top E string
B string 5th fret-unison with top E

Took a bit of practice but once I learned it I always tune a guitar if it seems out of tune.

[billkath]

Live playing I use the tuner on the POD XT live. In the studio I use Peterson strobosoft. Practicing I just do it by ear.

[markerhodes]

I was in a Guitar Center the other day and someone was looking at a Snark tuner. I asked the salesperson about it. "I've heard good things about this." He told me, "Every guitar player in those store bought one." I think I"m going to get one, though probably from Amazon (-where they're 11 bucks now) instead of Guitar Center (-where they're 30 bucks!)

[randalljazz]

trusty old korg dt-1

[mikerood]

just use my ears with open strings

[mr. beaumont]

The snark is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Okay, that's an exaggeration, but it's cheap, accurate, small, easy to read...I love it.

[Kojo27]

Well, Mark and Mr. B., you just sold another Snark. A tech at a local music store was using one the other day to set intonation, and it looked awesome - very vivid LED and seemed not to "equivocate" too much.

You guys who say you just tune by ear (caravan, mikerood, dad - maybe? ha) -- I can *do* that, but probably not as well as you (otherwise I'd take it as my method) ... I can't figure out how to tune that way and make the guitar sound the same way every time. This is crucial for me -- maybe I listen too closely (stethoscope and all) - I know I tend to make things too hard, if I don't watch out.

Here's one "by ear" thing that has been worth a fortune to me. I learned this from Lenny Breau. In one of my dad's old Guitar Player Magazines. Lenny wrote a column.

Lenny said: Arpeggiate the stack of fourths made by the 7th fret harmonics of the low E, A, and D strings. Three notes, ding, ding, ding. Harmonics. Listen close to how that sounds - play it again, listen. Now finger the same notes (b, e, a) on the third, second, and first strings, respectively. This involves playing the 3rd string "B" (4th fret) with your first fingertip, then barring the b and e strings at the fifth fret with your ring or second finger. Lenny said that if you can get that little fingered chord to exactly match the sound of your open-string harmonics played earlier, you'll sound pretty good.

Oh, how right he is! But you have to know when the three harmonics are in tune -- Lenny didn't say this; I've surmised it since. Of course, your intonation has to be good, too.

This thing is very handy. Learn it and you might use it for the rest of your life -- it's a good "double check."

KJ

[Jake Hanlon]

I tune many different ways... each way depends on situations.

Most common, I tune to a standard tuner and then sort of muck around with it to get it nice and tight. My 335 stays in tune amazingly well and so I tend to not have to tune it very often.

In classroom situations there is often a piano to be dealt with and so I tune to the piano as best I can... the piano is never in tune, just like a guitar but at least you can alter the Guitar.

[Baltar Hornbeek]

Maestro Diaz explains how he tempers his guitar. It suites my ears better than the equal temperament systems I've tried.
Diaz talks tune up

[hot ford coupe]

So that's what those little faucets on the end of the long stick are for. I thought I read somewhere that the factory doesn't want you turning those things.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

So that's what those little faucets on the end of the long stick are for. I thought I read somewhere that the factory doesn't want you turning those things.

Hahahahahahahahahaaa!

[Kojo27]

Have any of you tried the Buzz Feiten tempering system, which involves ever-so-slightly altering the string lengths via changes to the nut (and saddle, sometimes, I'm not sure...)?

I have. And I'm absolutely sold. Many of the new upper-end tuners (esp. strobe tuners) have a "Feiten Mode" -- or something similar they call it -- with Korg's DT-7 being the first tuner with that setting built in. You can tune a "Feitenized" guitar to any tuner, but tuning with the mode that's sweetened just for this system makes the altered guitar sound even better. Play any chord shape, anywhere on the neck - open chords, barre chords - they all sound sweet. Or much sweeter.

I watched Ruben Diaz ( http://www.rdiaz.org/rdvideo577.html ), tuning and re-tuning and yanking strings from beneath the capo, pulling strings back behind the capo, etc. -- to get one chord to sound sweet. This blew my mind.. Tuning his strings this way, could he possibly still be in tune after a minute, maybe even 30 seconds, of vigorous playing? Aren't we usually supposed to tune UP to the desired pitch... and never DOWN to it? When Diaz tunes his first and second strings DOWN in order to make a D chord sound in tune, one good strum, especially if the E and B strings are open, will leave those strings flat. I've tried this so many times for myself and as an illustration for students, and it always happens. Tuning down leaves GOBS of tension behind the nut. Picking or strumming that string then pulls some of the tension from behind the nut, releasing it into the string and making it flat.

Diaz is 200 times the guitar player I am -- and I'm sure his guitar is in tune more often, and better, than mine is -- but I couldn't do it that way. If he can tune like that and play a complete piece on stage, and still be in tune, I'd be amazed and mystified and befuddled -- all those things.

Give me Buzz Feiten. Standard on many guitars now and available for retro-fitting at a repair shop near you.

Am I nuts, or what?

[Baltar Hornbeek]

is the Feiten system an equal temperament system?

[billkath]

My question is this, on BF- What possible difference could his nut make if you don't play open string chords-like in jazz? Think about it.

[czardas]

If I want to tune exactly to equal temperament, normally I begin by tuning the fifth string to the note A (5th fret harmonic = 440 Hz). Then I tune everything else to this reference string to minimize error. Using octave harmonics on the 5th or 12th fret of the A string, I locate the corresponding fretted note A on the first four strings (D G B E) and adjust the pitch until they are in perfect unison with the reference note. Then I tune the sixth string E (bass). You generally have to repeat the process due to changes made in the overall neck tension during the previous pitch adjustments.

The above method only works with reasonably new strings. Once the strings start to become worn, compromises in tuning will have to be made. There is no hard and fast method, so checking a number of different of chord shapes to see if they sound good is the best approach.

Occasionally, when I am using a specific set of chord shapes, I flatten the string where the 3rd of the tonic major chord occurs within the standard shape. It can put some of the other chords slightly out of tune, but it sure sounds awesome when you arrive back on that tonic chord.

[randalljazz]

yaa...equal tempered major 3rds are awful...

[czardas]

Some curious details about different intervals used in various tuning systems are given here:

Interval (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Kojo27]

Buzz Feiten Tuning System


czardas - very interesting info there. Ruben Diaz talks about "commas" - I suppose he's talking about the same thing. Not sure I understand all this, but I'll keep reading

Baltar: No, I'm pretty sure the Feiten tuning system is NOT an "equal" temperament system. Maybe just go over to the Feiten website and decide for yourself. Best thing to do is go play a McPherson, or a higher-end Washburn, a USA Washburn, or some of the others that are Feitenizing their guitars as a standard spec now -- and tune it with a tuner and play!

billkath You know, this was my first doubt when I heard about Buzz Feiten's new tuning system - how can it affect fretted notes if it's just a tweaked nut? And I still can't explain it as well as their website does -- makes it seem simple, in fact, and it is simple. Sort of. You see, the nut (and usually the bridge) are tweaked ever-so slightly so as to alter the very lengths of the strings. Here's a list of points I took from their website:


Guitars Retrofitted with BFTS

• Play in tune from the first fret to the last
• Our exclusive Shelf Nut is made from the highest quality bone for superb tone {Graphite, now, too - KJ}
• Your original bridge is used so your action and tone are unchanged
• Tune by ear or with ANY electronic tuner of your choice
• Korg and Peterson Tuners with BFTS Mode offer fast and accurate tuning
• Our Non-invasive Retrofit does not change your guitar in any way
• Works perfectly with alternate tunings, capos, zero frets, locking or roller nuts and tremolo systems
• Every Retrofit includes our Shelf Nut with Lightning Bolt Logo and a Serial Numbered Authorization Sticker for authenticity

The list of artists using Feitenized guitars also includes Liona Boyd; Eddie Van Halen; Steve Vai; Scott Henderson; Michael Thompson; and Joe Satriani.

A couple of years ago, Washburn included the Buzz Feiten system in all their guitars except for the very cheapest "beginner package" deals. Now they include it only with their more expensive acoustics and electrics. I suppose the royalties (or whatever you'd call it) became too expensive?

When this thing first came to my attention, I bought a Washburn D-10, just to see what the fuss was about. A $300 guitar. It's unbelievable! To me, anyway. My cousin has it right now, but he lives just a few houses away, and I'll get it back and make an .mp3. You gotta hear this. If you can find a McPherson or a Washburn, or one of the others, tune it with a good tuner and play a 5th fret "D" barre chord. You'll hear it right away. It still isn't *perfect* -- but it's a whole hell of a lot closer than guitars were before. Really. I think it's a huge, major deal for guitars and guitar players.

[czardas]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Buzz Feiten Tuning System


czardas - very interesting info there. Ruben Diaz talks about "commas" - I suppose he's talking about the same thing. Not sure I understand all this, but I'll keep reading

Commas are small differences in pitch between natural notes and tempered intervals - though you might want to check that interpretation. I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the details, unless you want to study the subject in depth. I have a simple way to visualize this phenomena:

Say we have a root note with a frequency of 1 Htz (R = 1)

The octave is double the frequency (R x 2 = 2)
The natural fifth is one and a half times the frequency (R x 1.5 = 1.5)

Ascending 7 octaves by doubling the frequency gives
2^7 = 128 Htz

Ascending 7 octaves with 12 leaps of a natural fifth gives
1.5^12 = 129.746337890625 Htz

The second result is out of tune by 1.746337890625 Htz

This discrepancy represents some kind of comma. Here you can find more detailed information on the subject.

Pythagorean comma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Baltar Hornbeek]

Originally Posted by randalljazz

yaa...equal tempered major 3rds are awful...

long live a the justified 3rd, there's nothing so sweet..., sounds like a motor reving up

[kenbennett]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Lenny said: Arpeggiate the stack of fourths made by the 7th fret harmonics of the low E, A, and D strings. Three notes, ding, ding, ding. Harmonics. Listen close to how that sounds - play it again, listen. Now finger the same notes (b, e, a) on the third, second, and first strings, respectively. This involves playing the 3rd string "B" (4th fret) with your first fingertip, then barring the b and e strings at the fifth fret with your ring or second finger. Lenny said that if you can get that little fingered chord to exactly match the sound of your open-string harmonics played earlier, you'll sound pretty good.

The problem with this method is that the 7th fret harmonics are not the correctly tempered 5ths of their open strings. It is supposedly not good to use those harmonics as tuning references. (Who am I to argue with Lenny?)

On the other hand, the 5th and 12th fret harmonics are true octaves of the open string. Using those as references are fine.

When I tune by ear, I start with the A string and tune the high E to it. Then using the 5th fret harmonic of the A string compared with the 5th fret note on the E string, tweak the E string a little. Then tune all other strings checking them with fretted A's and E's compared to the open A and E.

A bass player I used to work with said that it sounds like I just play 2 or 3 notes and the whole guitar is in tune.

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by kenbennett

The problem with this method is that the 7th fret harmonics are not the correctly tempered 5ths of their open strings. It is supposedly not good to use those harmonics as tuning references.

Well, I didn't know this. I don't really know what you mean be "correctly" tempered fifths of their open strings. I mean, "correctly," according to whom? They *are* perfect mathematical fifths, aren't they? And: "...supposedly not good...as tuning references," according to whom?

I'm not disputing what you say -- but I'm interested in your sources.

Anyway, I don't see it as a "problem" with this method, as long as the method works, and it worked for Lenny and it works for me. Helps anyway. It's just a little double-check trick.

Try it -- maybe get your guitar in tune the way you normally do, THEN see if these notes don't match up pretty closely. I'd be interested to know.

Kojo27

[czardas]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Well, I didn't know this. I don't really know what you mean be "correctly" tempered fifths of their open strings. I mean, "correctly," according to whom? They *are* perfect mathematical fifths, aren't they? And: "...supposedly not good...as tuning references," according to whom?

The notes produced by harmonics are natural notes. They are more in tune than the fretted notes which are artificial (or tempered) notes. I attempted to simplify the maths in post 22, but probably didn't do a very good job. The problem is that the natural harmonics on the 7th fret do not correspond exactly to a perfect fifth in equal temperament. The natural fifth is an exact ratio of 3 to 2. To add intervals you need to multiply the ratios. Hopefully this will illustrate more clearly what I mean.

3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 x 3/2 > (is greater than) 128

This is what happens when we go around a circle of natural fifths (not tempered fifths) - we do not end up exactly back at the octave - but instead we end up slightly sharp. So small adjustments were made to the natural intervals to create equal temperament. This allowed more complicated chord changes (particularly modulation to different keys).

Much eastern music uses natural notes. This music does not modulate to different keys like western music does. Some early string instruments had moveable frets which needed to be adjusted according to the scale you were using. A few string instruments, such as the zitar, still have moveable frets.

[max chill]

Like others, most of my guitars came tuned from the factory. However,
sometimes you get one that is in need of tuning, and that's why they make guitar tuners.

The truth is, your ears are muscles, and after being exposed to everyday noises all day long, they become fatigued. You might not feel it, but it happens. This can affect your accuracy if you tune by ear, especially if it's later in the day. This is why even some great players will use a tuner.

[czardas]

Originally Posted by max chill

Like others, most of my guitars came tuned from the factory. However,
sometimes you get one that is in need of tuning, and that's why they make guitar tuners.

The truth is, your ears are muscles, and after being exposed to everyday noises all day long, they become fatigued. You might not feel it, but it happens. This can affect your accuracy if you tune by ear, especially if it's later in the day. This is why even some great players will use a tuner.

You mean those things with green and red flickering lights, or a meter that never stays still. I don't know if it's the way some of my students use such devices, but I have never been satisfied with the results. I guess the ones that attach to the instrument can come in handy if there is a lot of background noise from an audience. But then again, if they are making so much noise, you're probably at the wrong gig.

[kenbennett]

Originally Posted by Kojo27

I mean, "correctly," according to whom? They *are* perfect mathematical fifths, aren't they? And: "...supposedly not good...as tuning references," according to whom?

Pythagoras invented the tempered tuning system which is used everywhere today.

Do you know the difference between 'just intonation' and 'tempered' intonation?

Pythagoras was the guy who figured out that if each 5th is tuned slightly flat, then all semitones could be made equal, which would enable playing in all keys with intervals being equally in tune.

Believe me, I'm not qualified to make this shit up. Everything I know is according to somebody a lot smarter than I am.

[cmajor9]

A question for those with the Snark tuner: do you find it better in any way than other clip-on tuners? I have a clip-on which seems to work great 90% of the time; occasionally though its "asleep" and either doesn't respond to the string, or sticks on a certain position.