Bedroom player - How to get jazz combo to gig

[vittigo]

This is long post i know but maybe anyone of You guys will read it full, and want to share experiences, thoughts, advice.

A few words about me as a guitarist. I play guitar for almost 20 years now.
I started with nylon classic guitar, then gone through a heavy metal electric guitar fascination, to a blues-rock cover bands. I have also played with band behind gospel choir.

For a five or so years now I'm deeply fascinated with jazz, i even undertook at a time formal musical education to kick-start some skills, i have lacked (sight-reading, and harmony knowledge to name few). During this time I've played for some time in trio setting (with vocal and bass) - with bossa novas and jazz ballads as repertoire. I've tried with no success to start a couple of duets (2 guitars, guitar+violin).

And suddenly this reality comes to my mind - i became a bedroom player. I have my one-hour practice session every late evening. I play along band-in-the box, Aebersolds with all the courses and books around, staring at computer monitor.

I have to say that according to classification from this bitter-but-true article:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/files/careers-in-jazz.pdf

I'm career professional. And maybe this means that full-time job + wife + 2 small kids = not enough time to practice = be happy with what you get = play at bedroom.

Hell no !!! - i still remember what is music for me. This is playing in band (interaction, and creation the music with others on the spot) and playing for audience. But if change will not come i will play guitar only with my PC, and for my PC

The main problem here is which i never head with cover bands or any bands before. Getting people together to form a band and then to gig. Is jazz combo really so different?

When i look for people to play with me i met only 2 types:

- Gig whores - maybe this only local Polish specific, but almost any jazz musician I've met wants to play no matter what (even no jazz) no matter where, only for money. As I'm career professional so this kind of relation lasts at max 3 weeks

- no jazz players - many of people wants to play jazz, but lack skill, don't want to improve or develop them - so here obviously i can't play jazz either (but i've tried few times - no success).

What my options then? Solo gig? Not so funny for me. First i lack a skills to enjoy myself or audience with my solo performance, and second i really really love to play with others (i was thinking about performance with BIAB Real Tracks - but for me this is no real thing).

So no option? Bedroom player? Dreaming about bigbands, jazz combos, duets? Stop dreaming?

Any guys of You is in similar point? Maybe some of You have gone through this? All experiences and advice is most welcome

[FatJeff]

Start making videos of yourself and posting them to YouTube. Treat them as seriously as you would a gig. After you get a collection of good videos of yourself, you can use them as a sort of resume' or portfolio to attract other players or to get real gigs.

You might also want to see if there is a local university that has jazz combos or ensembles. That's what I am involved in.

[Little Jay]

I'm in the same situation you're in: full time job, wife and a little girl.
Don't despair! It can be combined with your guitar and jazz passion!

Luckily I have never been without a band. When my last band collapsed, I just started looking at advertisements and was lucky enough to find some guys in the same circumstances here in my town. Now we have a fine semi-professional band (Tracin' Tracy, see link in my sig)

What I also did was visiting the local jamsessions. I live in a city with a music conservatory, so the level of playing all around is pretty high, but some jamsessions are a little more low-level (but still challenging enough). I worked my way up into being session-leader every now and then. The sessions are realy nice, they give me an opportunity to play live every week (one night out per week is allowed by my family ;-)

And you have to be a little lucky also: I ran into a colleague at the office who turned out to be a guitarplayer too and played around at the same level as I and we formed a guitar duo (Hear2Play, see link in sig). The nice thing about it, is that we can rehearse at home, so not too much stress is put on our family lives. We do some nice restaurant gigs, coffee-house, art gallery-openings and so on, that mostly take place at sunday-afternoon, which is ideal :-)

Just keep looking for the right people!

[fep]

Maybe you've already done this... Imo, one thing you need to have down is at least 50 jazz standards memorized that you play well enough that you'd want to play them infront of an audience.

With that down...

If available, take some ensemble classes at a local community college. If you're in a city with several community colleges there is probably one that has the best jazz program. Try to join the Big Band class, you'll probably have to audition. If not that, then look for other ensemble classes or an improv class. They're a lot of adults in your situation that use these classes as a musical outlet.

Community college is a great way to meet other musicians, you then can invite the best of the class over to your house for pizza, beer and a jam session. Once you meet a handful of musicians, you'll meet musician friends of those musicians etc. That's what I did, it's easy for me now to put together a combo if I want to.

One suggestion, imo try to find 'mature' musicians that are in your situation or retired. I've had bad luck with the 18 to early twenty something group, they've been unbelievable unreliable. Of course this is a generalization and there are exceptions, I've only had one person in that age group that was reliable. That's been my experience. Dependability is such an important trait for a musician.

[cosmic gumbo]

Welcome to the reality of playing jazz.

[kenbennett]

I would go with the gig whores. Money makes the music go round. And you want people listening. Play covers jam band style. Stupid audience don't know every note of every record. Play what you want, what you feel. People may say you sound like Jerry Garcia. Fuck them. You know better.

[kenbennett]

Let me rephrase that. Look, I'm 57 or 58 years old. I quit playing guitar as a full time pro about 15 years after college because I had some stupid idea that I wanted to get into electronics and programming. At that point I lowered my musical standards and played with anybody who had a gig. The guys that hire me now are in their 30s. That want me because I can follow anything they call, any style. I just came home from a one hour gig that paid me $200. I need the money, and they need my energy. Tonight, in that one hour, I stretched a little on every song--Jerry Garcia style. But there were a few songs like Moondance, one by Sting, and remember that song Spooky, where I got to take a real jazz approach. After all, what is jazz but a reinterpretation of pop? So add it all up: $200, a few good solos, free food and drink, interaction with both music fans and fine women... What's the problem? Go with the gig whores! That's where the people are. And music was meant for people.

[Dark Star]

If somebody said I sounded like Jerry Garcia, I wouldn't feel insulted even if they meant it as one.

[kenbennett]

Originally Posted by Dark Star

If somebody said I sounded like Jerry Garcia, I wouldn't feel insulted even if they meant it as one.

I've been told that 4 times within the last year, never intended as an insult, and never taken as such. It was a surprise to me. I've never listened to The Dead. I'm remember Truckin' and a couple of others from the radio. We occasionally play Friend Of The Devil, but I have no idea what the original sounds like. I think that improvising over straight major and minor chords on a country-rock tune is just going to come out like Jerry.

Twice I was told that I look like Garcia too, but not since I got a haircut and trimmed my beard.

Back to the original topic... vittigo, don't give up. Are there any jazz jams in your town?

[vittigo]

Thaks for all your feedback. First of all it let me re-think the way i articulate my problem. But first i will try to answer back some of the questions.

Altough i live in Warsaw (capital and biggest city in Poland), believe mi or not the is no single regular jazz jam sessions in town. They occur now and then. There is a little bit better in blues-rock jam sessions.
So there are really no jazz community around this scarce events to hook on to.
This shows some true about how it is to play jazz here. Few places to accept a jazz gigs (on let's say average jazz level) and even less of them to accept regular gigs (let's say once a week).

Going to gig with gig-whores (as some of You suggested) first is hard because they don't have a gigs either (many have to play abroad for this only reason). They are really hungry for gigs, and when we met, playing with me - is just another hope to maybe land a one more gig.
What's wrong then? As i have full time job, and full time family - playing jazz for me means an extra time for:

- practicing to keep my chops relevant (no problem here)
- practicing together to keep band chops relevant (no problem either)
- actually giging (let's say one evening a week - no problem)
- cruising clubs/talking to managers and so on ... to land a new gigs

As the last activity need to be repeated almost after every gig (in context i've described at beginning), i have problems to get enough extra time for that. But even then i manage to get new appointment every to months on avarege - but that is not far from enough to feed gig whores hunger.
Moreover i as a carrer professional don't have to feed this hunger, i can play simply for joy of putting ensemble together, with gigs even as rare as once every two months.
This is way i find difficult to play with gig whores.

I will try the advice with music university ensembles - but i suspect lack of "maturity" as someone state this before.

So to sum up. My initial problem was:
Do you play in bands without the context of living of the gigs? Do you play gigs for joy not for money? Do you have any means other than gigs/money to keep a band not part?

I ask because in my reality it's like every one is for hire, and You have to supply gigs (meaning money) to keep a band playing together.

[kenbennett]

OK, I hear you v.

When I was playing full time, I had very high standards for musicianship and regular pay. No problem. I could pass almost any audition. I was open to any style as long as the quality was there. And traveling was sometimes part of the deal.

When I decided to try another kind of job where I could stay home with my kids, I lowered my musical standards and played with anybody, even if the money and musicianship wasn't that good. Sometimes it was; sometimes it wasn't. Still had fun. Made extra cash. Kept up chops.

If you are really stuck on doing only jazz, then it's tougher. In a town where jazz is really happening it is hard to get the gigs; the great players have them locked in. Where jazz is not happening, there are no gigs to get. And where there is no money, then you are potentially on your own.

You have to carve out your own niche. Most players who can function as band leaders can also function as soloists.

If you can sing, that helps a lot. I used to be able to do gigs by myself. Sing a bunch of tunes and throw in some instrumentals.

Since I've been focusing on jazz guitar the last few years, I've let that slip away. Now I just take gigs as a lead guitar player. I work with guys who normally sing and accompany themselves on guitar. I play the leads and sing harmony. Sometimes we add bass and drums if there is money for it. It's usually not a jazz gig, but I approach it as if it were.

I think it's important to be out playing in front of an audience. That's the only real test and the only real purpose of playing. Do what you can to get there. If you have to go out on your own, do it honestly. If you are not a great soloist, then offer to do it for free in situations where otherwise there would be no music. Find your niche. Then cultivate it.

[kamlapati]

Same problems finding good musicians to play with anywhere. Here in California I've tried:

Jazz summer camps
Blues jam sessions
Local guitar instructors and group classes / workshops
Open mics
Craigslist

Open mics have worked best for me. I play a few standards solo, and people who like it want to talk after the set. I finally feel part of a community of musicians. It takes years.

Don't give up.

[vittigo]

Thank you for all Your feedback again. I will try some new options and aproaches as You suggested (bands around musical schools, jams). And furthermore i will try to organize and consolidate my repertoire to be more ready and inline with gig whores. I hope this will do fine. You could wish me luck.

Thx again.