Asian guitars (and other stuff). A user view.

[Davidh]

I've had this on my mind for some time now, initiated at least in part by the pretty strong opposition found by some members on a certain cane fly fishing rod forum to anyone buying a chinese knock-off copy of a craftsman-made cane fly rod.

I own two guitars - a much knocked-about student classical guitar ( very cheap, made in Spain), and a chinese jazzbox, which I like, a lot. There are some issues with the chinese guitar which I've highlighted eleswhere on the forum.

I understand, and to some extent agree with the economic arguments which propose buying home-grown goods as opposed to imports wherever possible.
But you know in the UK we sold ourselves down the river many years ago by producing sub-standard automobiles (great designs badly constructed). Panels which didn't fit properly, and new cars which were rusting prior to being sold were not unusual. When I started my first job I saw more than a few and eventually bought one (white MG) with a hefty discount.
In the UK we lost most of our automobile industry to imports because it was badly run, badly lead, and unionised to death, whereas the imports were (usually) lower or similar price, higher spec, higher quality and lasted longer.

That some of those "imports" are now made in the UK and Europe shows how things tend to turn full circle.

Back to guitars - is there a good reason to buy a guitar made in Asia?
I think there is, as dictated by money and circumstances.
The important thing to remember is that Asian instruments (there may be the odd exception which I'm not aware of) are not top-end instruments, and cannot be compared to a craftsman-made guitar.

For my purse my chinese jazzbox is probably the best value I'm going to get. It is a joy to play and I'll have some fun with it.

The story of the chinese knock-off fishing rods is interesting. A UK craftsman rodmaker (think luthier, but for fishing rods) told how he and other rodmakers both in the USA and UK (good rodmakers are a small community) were approached by a chinese company to design and help set up a production line for cane rods. They all declined, but some time later someone made a secret deal.

You can now buy a good chinese cane fishing rod on ebay for about 1/6th of the cost of a hand-built cane rod.

Thanks for reading.

Davidh

[kris]

I saw very nice looking hand made jazz guitars from China.
Prices very low.Looks like made from good wood/a lot ebony things/.
I do not not how they sound...maybe very good.

[billkath]

Since we're in a global market There are three legitimate ways of deciding what product to buy-
1/Quality
2/ Price
3/A compromise of those two.

Anything else is just politics.

[kris]

A compromise of those two.

[mad dog]

"Asia" is a bit broad. I can think of many reasons to buy made in Japan guitars. Certain Korean guitars also impress on the quality level (such as Peerless, Peerless-made.) Not much experience with Chinese or Indonesian models.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Good guitars are made all over the world.
MD

[fep]

The Chinese art of wordworking goes so far back, it doesn't surprise me that they could make high quality handmade guitars... the are The woodworking culture.

In the early Chinese civilization, “Lu Ban” and his wife “Lady Yun” were known as the originators of the craft of woodworking. They were both from the “Spring and Autumn period,” an age in the Chinese history between 722 BC and 481 BC. Lu Ban’s teachings in woodworking were said to be the foundation of the Chinese woodworking craft. In his book, “Manuscripts of Lu Ban,” he described the correct measurements to be used when making tables, flower pots, furniture, etc.
In fact, in the history of woodworking, the Chinese’ craft of woodworking was one of the famous woodwork arts because they created furniture without using the typical joining tools such as nails and glue.

[newsense]

I don't think we should be at all surprised by the quality of guitars emanating from China/Korea/Vietnam/Indonesia. To make a high quality sub-$2000 guitar all you need is

• a good design
• accurate CNC machines
• good organization
• rigorous quality control
• a well trained work-force.

These ingredients can be available anywhere in the world (even the UK). It helps that in the above-mentioned countries the labour rates are very low (excepting S. Korea, perhaps), thereby maximising profits. Of course, it cannot be claimed that these are "craftsman built" guitars, but the widespread use of CNC has greatly narrowed the quality gap between mass-produced and craftsman-built guitars. What CNC machines cannot do is take account of slight differences in the characteristics of the raw material and change dimensions (e.g. soundboard thickness) on the fly to optimise the acoustic properties.

As to the philosophical areguments as to whether we should buy from home or abroad, that is totally atthe discretion of the buyer.

However, (@Davidh) it IS still possible to buy a craftsman-built guitar produced in the UK, for the same money as a far-eastern mass produced item, as proven by the continued existence Gordon Smith Guitars: Gordon-Smith Guitars. No full-sized archtops unfortunately, but a very nice looking thin-line semi.

[docbop]

Think say Asian is too generic it needs to be broken out. I have one of the early Fender reissue Tele's and its was made in Japan and excellent guitar. When I first started playing back in the 60's Japanese guitar were the typical low-end guitar most started on and they were really bad guitars. Then brands like Ibanez and Yamaha turned all that around with first class instruments. But Japanese instruments started getting more expensive.

Then the CNC world of guitar making came about and the Koreans started making really nice guitars at good prices. The Chinese started getting into low end guitar.

Now the Chinese are making hand-built guitars and amps at great prices. Basically the Chinese have become what Japan was in the 70's making what ever you want low-end or high-end for good prices.

So companies still want cheap guitars so Malaysia and other counties names are popping up on the backs of instruments. Since most of the work is done by CNC machines the general quality isn't bad, especially when I think of the nightmare cheap guitar that were available in the 60's. Back then necks like 2x4", strings a 1/2" off the fretboard, sometimes the wood was still green under the finish, but it was a guitar and we were happy to have one.

So kind of need to break down which Asian country your talking about.

[bretkills]

"Asia" is a bit wide. I can think of Japanese guitar are many reasons to buy. Some South Korean guitar also impressed by the quality level . And China or Indonesia models.Think that Asia is too general, it needs to be broken experience. I have an early Fender reissue telephoto, and its excellent in Japan and the guitar. When I first started in Japan in the 1960s is a typical low-end guitar playing guitar the beginning, they are really bad guitar.

[TruthHertz]

To state and restate the obvious: What you see coming out of China is what we, the western "importers" want to come out of China. I have seen workmanship come out of Chinese workshops that equals the finest handbuilt shops (and I say this as a luthier) and I've seen great bargains where the importer on the headstock dictates the price point and the shop cuts the corners needed to meet that.
You find a luthier based operation that cooperatively uses a Chinese workforce to their advantage, and aims for a no compromise guitar, you will have the best guitars available still for a fraction of the cost. Chinese workmanship is available that is all handbuilt. Hand carved, tap tuned. But guitar importers generally have a different value set when dealing with Chinese workshops: they are slave labor for a high profit margin. What can you expect from that mindset?
I have seen a small number of luthiers using Chinese labor, fitted, tuned and finished domestically. Those guitars are simply amazing.
They can do it, they have the chops. Business model is the largest impediment to our knowing what the Chinese market can really do. Maybe the greatest obstacle to seeing what local businesses and craftsmen can do.
David

[jazzjew7890]

Asian guitars can be great.
When buying a guitar the last thing I think about is where it is made. Granted an American guitar is great because of the names that come out of here (Gibson, fender, prs, heritage, etc.)

But all these companies have guitars made overseas.
PRS se's are all made in a specific factory so quality is stil there.
If the exports are cheap who cares because even though a high end Gibson arch top hardly ever sells, Gibson sure as hell makes up those sales in cheap epiphone studios.

If you love the guitar then you love the guitar regardless of where it's made, it's just another nice perk.

My question is where are eastman's made? They're very high quality and are generally cheaper than most of the hollowbodys.

[jazzjew7890]

One thing I can't understand is why the Gretsch guitars are sometimes 1,500+ for an overseas product. My idea is if I am going to buy a 2000 dollar guitar I would like it to be made on home soil.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by jazzjew7890

But all these companies have guitars made overseas.
PRS se's are all made in a specific factory so quality is stil there.

This is key. There are dedicated workshops and factories: they are like a marriage or partnership. There are factories that will make the customer happy if all they want is bang for the buck: they are like bordellos.

Originally Posted by jazzjew7890

My question is where are eastman's made? They're very high quality and are generally cheaper than most of the hollowbodys.

Eastman has a dedicated workforce. They have master luthiers and high Quality Control. They made guitars under the Potomic name a while back and they do custom work for specific dealers still under the Eastman name, but their workforce is strictly Eastman and their standards are indeed very high.
Their corners are cut in areas like hardware and electronics, but to many it's not an issue.
David

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by jazzjew7890

One thing I can't understand is why the Gretsch guitars are sometimes 1,500+ for an overseas product. My idea is if I am going to buy a 2000 dollar guitar I would like it to be made on home soil.

Why does a dog lick itself?
Because it can.


David

[cosmic gumbo]

Next year I get job at the guitar factory and get 2 bowls of rice a day!

[vinlander]

Politics can be deceiving in some cases.
Buying an overpriced Gibson might be encouraging american economy, but buying an Epiphone is also encouraging Gibson's activities.
It is up to each to decide what to do with their hard earned money...
You get what you pay for in the end (applies also for usa made label and logo)

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Next year I get job at the guitar factory and get 2 bowls of rice a day!

Is it indoors?



Deal!

[marcwhy]

Eastmans are built in China, I believe.

Sadowsky archtops are also Asia-made, and I hear they're "pretty good."

M

[mr. beaumont]

Time to stop worrying so much about where and worry more about the quality of the instrument.

The eastern hemisphere has produced some clunkers...they've also got some places doing things very, very well. Blanket statements no longer apply (if they ever did)

[augusjazz]

Everything is related to what you can afford and what level of guitar player has.
For what I am able to play the guitar and pay Cort Yorktown is fine.
I leave an audio sample:

YouTube Video