Chord Question

[Scrybe]

Okay, I'm working on developing my chord vocabulary systematically (going through all poss combinations of maj7, dom7, min7, etc., for now, then adding extensions later).

I know some chords can be considered "polytonal" and I know some are enharmonic equivalents (e.g. Am7 and C6 have the same notes). I've been using some chord grips, or partial chord grips for several chords - e.g. playing the 7,5,3 of a min7 is the same as playing the 3.5.7. of a half dim7 chord, or playing an Em chord when the bass is playing a C note to create a Cmaj7 sound overall.

Basically, I want to know if there's any systematic approach to doing this. I don't want to confuse myself. I've long been at a point now where I no longer look at a grip and think "that X chord" I think "that could be X...or Y...or Z..." Right now, it's not so bad (I'm usually playing the 3, 5, and 7, or 3, 7, 9), but I want to move into being able to play just the upper structures of extended chords on the fly while a bassist/keys player plays the 1,3,5,7 bits, or to make comping more interesting sounding (by playing a standard voicing, then playing the upper structure of that chord, then moving to the next chord...that kinda thing). I know the basic principles to recite, but don't really know how best to make this a natural part of my playing right now.

Thx.

[Alex Carvalho]

That's what good voicings are all about. You'll have to confuse yourself in the beginning because that's what happens when you start thinking freely harmonic wise like the good piano players usually do... Voicings are rootless in the sense that depending on the root applied they can be interpreted as many different chords. In fact any of the 12 notes can be the root of any voicing. Some of the chords created will be recognizable for the tonal/modal ear, some will sound more atonal, like 12-tone kinda sound.
For example: the voicing F B E A (3rd pos, strings D G B E) depending on the bass applied could be D-6(9), G13(9), C# (#9)(b13), Fmaj#11, E phrygian, Ab dim(b13), and those are only the most common sounds...we could try other roots that would bring about more atonal sounds...

[Scrybe]

Thanks, I think for now I'm gonna stick with practicing playing a chord (e.g. Cmajor) starting with it in root position, then 2nd inversion, 3rd inversion, then each "upper structure" (I mean that pretty loosely here, but playing 7,9,111, then 9,11,13, and stuff like that).

[fep]

Expanding your chord vocabulary is a process. Eventually arpeggios, scales and chords kind of merge and from that you can see all the chord tones on the neck and just come up with chord variations on the fly.

It takes time and proper practice and theory.

This will explain some of that process.

BT - Expanding Your Chord Vocabulary

The other thing that really helped me was organizing the neck using CAGED. Check out the CAGED material here:

BTstudent8024 | Scribd

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Do people have any book suggestions? I wonder if it's a good idea to get a jazz harmony book that's not specifically for guitar and learn the theory separately from applying it to the fretboard.

[Alex Carvalho]

I agree with Feb and I'll check out what he suggested but what I can say for now is: Yes, transcription is great, especially good piano players, but not all voicings will be possible on the guitar, you'll have to reduce, what is not so easy...Also, study arranging, especially the chapters on voicings, and try to understand and apply the material in different positions in the neck. Then you can use a play along, turn the piano and guitar off, and play the voicings along with only bass and drums in every key.

[Reg]

Scrybe... how goes... You need to get to the point where you can voice any note on top of any chord. Which means you need to know all 7 notes, scale or mode of every chord you play. (Not that you need to play all of them.) The art of comping is to play or imply by set up the harmonic area. More important than which notes you play is the lead or melody line on top and how you voice below.( I'm taking it for granted you know which notes to choose from and these are general guide lines, there are exceptions to anything) Your lead line can be a melody or counter melody or just a groove which implies time or phrasing. I added a PDF sample of Wayne Shorters Night Dreamer in a 4/4 Bossa, MM 180, in 2. Reg

[Scrybe]

Hey Reg,

Thanks for that, Night Dreamer is one I'm roughly familiar with, tho I haven't played it more than a couple of times so far.

I think my main problem at the moment is that I keep trying to have a good melody movement going on in the top note of my chords, but I'm finding that I don't alway have enough voicings to maintain it. I should also pull my finger out and get to grips with using Finale to notate stuff so I can share the ideas I'm coming up with - to get an idea if I'm on the right track with the stuff I'm doing so far. I'm sure my current stuff could be refined further, too, by doing that.

I have so much to work on.....

[Reg]

Hey Scrybe... give me a couple of tunes you know, and in what style, instrumentation etc... and I'll write out a few sample comping parts with lead lines etc... If I get my camera connected, I'll make videos...Reg

[Scrybe]

Hey Reg, that'd be awesome. I'm partly struggling with the idea of doing latin tunes in a duo format at the moment (trumpet and acoustic guitar), so any of these would be good...

Spain
Corcovado
Perdido
Wave
St Thomas
Desafinado
One Note Samba
Little Boat
Blue Bossa (I've got a few ideas on that one, so will try to make a vid myself to share, too)


I know I've listed quite a few there, but pick whichever ones you think you can offer the most help with from those. And massive thanks, I'm really looking forward to seeing how tackle them, and learning from that!

[Reg]

cool tunes... I'll write out sat....Reg

[derek]

Developing a chord collection is one of those cool things about jazz guitar. There are plenty of systems for doing that, and it sounds like you have at least one down.

Another that can easily be had is to take any new chord you run across, and analyse it. Doesn't matter what it is. Make all the versions of it you can, so M7, m7, Dom7, m7b5, etc. Then see if you can make this same shape on another string set in a different position. Typically you can in at least one other place.

When you get this, run them all around the key circle individually, then make chord scales out of them and run them around the key circle. When doing them as chord scales, you can run them along the same string set, and then cross sets.

At this point, they should be pretty familar, and you can begin plugging them into every tune you can to reinforce them. By using this method, you can easliy pick up a bunch of chord voicings in a fairly short time. Good luck with it.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by derek

Another that can easily be had is to take any new chord you run across, and analyse it.

For example:

X34342 (Aside: make a "small barre" with your middle finger to play the notes at the third fret.)

What chord is it?

Gmaj7#11
Emin9/6
A13
C#min11b5
Eb7#5b9#9

It's the wonder chord! It's a major chord, a minor chord, a dominant chord, a half-diminished chord and and an altered chord all at the same time. It's slices, it dices! I don't need any other chords now.

[derek]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

For example:

X34342 (Aside: make a "small barre" with your middle finger to play the notes at the third fret.)

What chord is it?

Gmaj7#11
Emin9/6
A13
C#min11b5
Eb7#5b9#9

It's the wonder chord! It's a major chord, a minor chord, a dominant chord, a half-diminished chord and and an altered chord all at the same time. It's slices, it dices! I don't need any other chords now.

When you ordered yours, did you get the gensu knives with it?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by derek

When you ordered yours, did you get the gensu knives with it?

Even better!

[derek]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Even better!

I love the Pocket Fisherman! For those times when you just gotta wet a line.