Do You play the root?

[GuitaRoland]

Do You play the root when comping jazzchords? I don't - the root is there in the bass or keyboard anyhow.
I play only three or four notes depending on what chord it is, the third the seventh and the altered notes.
Never the fifth if it isn't flat or sharp. Only two notes if it is a simple seventh chord.

I guess this is common and basic but I would still like to hear how you guys out there think when playing changes.

/R

[billkath]

It all depends. When I'm playing with a band with keys and bass-I keep out of their way. If it's a busy keys player and no bass-I'll often play roots. If it's just me, our sax player and we're playing to drum and bass backing tracks-always, if the roots are on 4th string or higher.That's because our backing tracks are very simple bass lines, though.

[FatJeff]

Sometimes I do. Lately I don't, at least when playing with a bass in the combo. I've been focusing on more upper-structure voicings.

Like Bill says, it depends. I usually do if I'm playing solo.

[derek]

When playing without a bass, I use the shell voicings ala Freddy Green. If playing with bass and keys, I play the same voicings, omitting the root, so just 3rd and 7th mostly.

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by billkath

It all depends. When I'm playing with a band with keys and bass-I keep out of their way. If it's a busy keys player and no bass-I'll often play roots. If it's just me, our sax player and we're playing to drum and bass backing tracks-always, if the roots are on 4th string or higher.That's because our backing tracks are very simple bass lines, though.

That's the way I do it too, if I back up a singer alone I add the roots, and if I'm just jamming with one of my friends soloing I also play the roots. Otherwise I don't.

[cosmic gumbo]

I remember when my mom caught me playing the root alone up in my bedroom. She made me wash my hands with turpentine and sleep in the woodshed!

[GuitaRoland]

To cosmic gumbo I would like to say:

Could have been funny - but no, I don't think so! I consider this to be a Jazz Forum!

My mom taught me to think twice before I said something tasteless to other people.

/R

[Bloomworks]

Always depends on the situation. Duo gigs without bass, you need the roots. Trio with bass and any number of instruments above that, you don't need them.

It's all about being musical.

[cosmic gumbo]

Originally Posted by GuitaRoland

To cosmic gumbo I would like to say:

Could have been funny - but no, I don't think so! I consider this to be a Jazz Forum!

My mom taught me to think twice before I said something tasteless to other people.

/R

Yikes! It's the humor police! Don't worry, I got arrested for being funny once, but the judge threw it out of court.

[GuitaRoland]

I don't mind if some of you enjoy yourself making fun of other people.
This is common in many forums so keep on enjoying any way you want
if it makes you feel more pleasant and it makes your day.

/R

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by gersdal

My apologies if you read my comment like this. My intention was to express the opposite. I loved your comment, agreed to it and found it very appropriate in the circumstances.

Sorry, but Thank You Gersdal, the comment was not pointing at you but more the funny guy who likes to play with his root.
I think we all will be winners by showing each other respect.

/R

[Reg]

Hey Roland...I'm sorry I actually am alright with the humor...i like laughing , anyway back to roots...You can comp any way... if it works, and what I mean is that what ever your playing is contributing to the harmonic motion or lack of... or groove or what ever the tune is implying. As always your lead note as well as your lowest note are the most influencing, unless you accent accordingly. I play in three big bands, all different pianists. Some guys can't keep their hands off the keys. Even in smaller groups. I never worry about being hip, just making the group sound better. Some tunes have been played so many times you could play anything and the harmony or melody are still implied to anybody. I play a lot of roots on bottom and on top, rarely for very long durations, but I also play chord phrases to help accent grooves or support melodies. When I'm behind a soloist I try and give what he(she) wants, if they wants to go somewhere, I follow, or if they need implied changes, rhythmic harmonic set-ups or pulse I play the changes. I listen and play what's needed. I rarely just play what on the chart, or standard changes for the tune called, unless I don't get what's implied, and that doesn't happen often, I've spent my life learning that bullshit theory stuff, from all sources. I think if you think about it, most choices are pretty obvious. When your playing you need to be aware of who's listening and play accordingly. Reg

[Flat5]

"I got arrested for being funny once, but the judge threw it out of court."

Now, Cosmic Gumbo, if you really wanted to be funny you should have said:

"the evidence wouldn't stand up in court..." (in reference to your original 'funny')

[gersdal]

A more interesting question is perhaps when you play rootless and when you play rooted chords. We have understood when Cosmic Gumbo plays with the root, but that aside:

The obvious situation that calls for playing rooted chords is when there is no bass player. In addition to that I would probably add the root when playing ballads.

In most other situations I would play rootless chords.

Any views on this?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

How's this for general rules:

1. Stay out of the way (range) of the bass line. (double bass, piano's LH, 7 string guitar )

As an example, the bass on this G chord may get in the way:

3x445x

but probably not when you raise it an octave:

x.10.x.11.12.12

You still don't need to play that G, but maybe you're doing some voice leading, or it plain sounds good.

Another aspect of "staying out of the way" is to mind your EQ: playing solo having a wide (HiFi) range sounds good, but with other instruments, being more mid-rangy helps you cut through without stepping on aural toes.

2. Less is more: you don't need to double the bass line. (On the other hand, I think it's cool when the guitar and bass have some parallel lines worked out.) Less: there's nothing wrong with a 3 or even 2 note chord.

[Reg]

That's way to logical man... Good general guidelines, I'm trying to think of any time I just sit on any chord... I always have lines or grooves going on top and bottom. I'm always aware of what going on, what or who should be out front, I listen etc... of the school of don't fill in just because there's space. I guess I comp as to the shape or form of tune. Some melodies build on their own and don't need harmonic help, but need help getting to the "B" section or whatever point in the tune, so I would play a rhythmic chord phrase to help set up or imply time or Strong-weak pattern, or what the tune suggests. The root could be on bottom at beginning, end or even during chord phrase, if I want the harmonic motion or reharmonization I'm going through to be more out front. I'll try and come up with guidelines that might help compliment BigDaddys. Reg

[jazzranz07]

hello to everyone. i do hope that you could help me with some stuffs. thanks

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by jazzranz07

hello to everyone. i do hope that you could help me with some stuffs. thanks

Hi and welcome to this forum - why not go to Chit Chat & Introductions and
introduce yourself. On this jazz-forum you will find nice people with a lot of knowledge.

/R

[Hoopskidoodle]

Originally Posted by GuitaRoland

To cosmic gumbo I would like to say:

Could have been funny - but no, I don't think so! I consider this to be a Jazz Forum!

I thought it was funny and clearly jazz related.
However, if in the unlikely circumstance that you are a 120 year old African American man from New Orleans, I will, of course, defer to your authority as the legitimate arbiter of jazz and jazz related humor.

[franamico]

Originally Posted by GuitaRoland

Do You play the root when comping jazzchords? I don't - the root is there in the bass or keyboard anyhow.
I play only three or four notes depending on what chord it is, the third the seventh and the altered notes.
Never the fifth if it isn't flat or sharp. Only two notes if it is a simple seventh chord.

I guess this is common and basic but I would still like to hear how you guys out there think when playing changes.

/R

Yes, exactly!
That sounds good!
When you play with a bass player you want to stay away from bass notes.
Let him do his job

However, when you play fingerstyle in a duo context (with a singer for example) you might want to play roots a bit more. You don't have to but if you are playing a walking bassline and chords on top, that will make you sound like a one man band! And your singer will love you forever...

Experiment combining "full" chords with just guide tones (i.e. 3rd and 7th) and see what happens.
When you solo, you can choose to play the bass (root) on the first beat on any other OR on the off beat just like any other note in the melody.

Remember one thing though. Your timing must be really solid! you can play just guide tones and swing like crazy! people will add the bassline in their mind...and they will feel as if you are involving them in the process in your performance...nice.

Good luck!

[markf]

sadly There are more than a few bass players around my neck of the woods who avoid the root like it was going to give them a horrible disease.

bass solo all night long.

[franamico]

Originally Posted by markf

sadly There are more than a few bass players around my neck of the woods who avoid the root like it was going to give them a horrible disease.

bass solo all night long.

Have you tried to ask them to play more roots? you'd be surprised to see that they really appreciate your feedback.
Anyway, it's nice when bass payers and drummers leave space.

Contemporary bass playing feature lots of bass soloing as comping...I think it all started with Miles...listen to "Bitches Brew" for example.

[amusiathread]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I remember when my mom caught me playing the root alone up in my bedroom. She made me wash my hands with turpentine and sleep in the woodshed!

Cosmic Gumbo, I for one appreciate the comic relief.

[markf]

Originally Posted by franamico

Have you tried to ask them to play more roots? you'd be surprised to see that they really appreciate your feedback.
Anyway, it's nice when bass payers and drummers leave space.

Contemporary bass playing feature lots of bass soloing as comping...I think it all started with Miles...listen to "Bitches Brew" for example.

The style got a big boost from Scott La Faro.

[DonEsteban]

I must admit, I am way to lazy, thinking where the root is in any chord I play, that means, while I'm playing live. I play what I like to hear no matter if there's a root note involved in the actual chord I just play. Voicing matters.

And for all these busy keyboarders oder soloing bass players. In doubt I tacet. Or play little, tiny one-note rhythmical patterns.

Or, mostly, I just stand there and listen to the music. If they want to do all the work? Welcome!

:-)

[Gramps]

I find myself having to agree with BigDaddy again. (scary. lol)

I think its important to remember that when playing in any combination of other players you want to fill a hole that nobody else is covering. If the tonic isn't being named and you miss it, play it. If everyone is overplaying (judgment call) than lay back or out. If the tone of any instrument is filling up a specific frequency range make your musical statements in a different one.

Bottom line: leave your ego at home, pay attention and use your ears and do what works best to "sell" the song.

[JohnRoss]

Originally Posted by gersdal

My apologies if you read my comment like this. My intention was to express the opposite. I loved your comment, agreed to it and found it very appropriate in the circumstances.

Is this some sort of Scandinavian thing? Are double entendres a no-no in Nordic climes? I always thought it was the Germans who were the stereotypical nationality lacking a sense of humour.

[gersdal]

I leave it to do your analysis of the errors that various nationalities may have or not. I'm here for the music

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by JohnRoss

Is this some sort of Scandinavian thing? Are double entendres a no-no in Nordic climes? I always thought it was the Germans who were the stereotypical nationality lacking a sense of humour.

JohnRoss, you seem to have a great sense of humour. Why don't you tell us forum members from Scandinavia where you are located? Maybe we have something to learn about humour from where you come from?

/R

[DonEsteban]

He's a Scot living in Madrid. I'm a German living in Alicante. We could have some mean jokes about this three mentalities (spain/scot/german) but we'd be better off changing the forum as this here ought to be about mean jazz guitar... big grin ....Cheers Stefan