Do You play the root?

[Drumbler]

I usually play the root but not always in the root position.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I came for the jazz but stayed for the abuse

[gersdal]

Whatever. Anyway, here's a great source for rootless voicings:

Originally Posted by Jeff Brent

Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences
Jeff Brent's Rootless ii-V-I Guitar Chord Sequences in guitar grid format on WholeNote.com. The Bill Evans closed rootless ii-V-I chord voicing system for piano - revoiced open for jazz guitar. Special thanks to Randall Carlson and Brian Prunka for proofreading and suggestions.

Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences (pdf- 9 pgs)
Same material as above, but formatted in standard music notation and tablature (pdf). Special thanks to Gerhard Ersdal for taking the time to put this together.

Rootless Minor 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences
Jeff Brent's Rootless Minor ii7b5 - V7alt - im9 (or im69) Guitar Chord Sequences in guitar grid format on WholeNote.com. A continuation of the Evans' style rootless chord system for fingering ii-V-I progressions on guitar above.

Rootless Minor 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences (pdf - 4 pgs)
Same material as above, but formatted in standard music notation and tab (pdf). Special thanks to Gerhard Ersdal for taking the time to put this notation/tab document together.

Another collaborator (Joe Bianco) is currently formatting a version of these materials that analyzes the chord components of each grip in the sequences and cross-references with their rootless bIIV7alt substitute chords. Very cool stuff (but very time consuming to format).

As soon as Joe has finished up his documents (and they have been proofread) I will also post the links here.

Thank you all for you interest, and Happy New Year!

Jeff Brent

[gersdal]

And:

Originally Posted by Jeff Brent

This "Bill Evans style rootless chords voiced for guitar" that I originally posted on wholenote.com has generated a great deal of interest, not only here at jazzguitar.be, but elsewhere as well.

.....
But Joe Bianco really went to town with these. He streamlined them, slicked 'em up and made interactive comparative analyses of the chord components!

Joe's "Online ii-V-I Tutor" frankly blows my mind! This is the best exposition of guitar chords (rootless or otherwise) that I have ever seen in my life!!!

Just click on a set of voicings on the left navigation bar that you'd like to check out, and THEN instantaneously compare the chord elements by hitting any one of the 9 buttons at the bottom center:

Rootless ii-V-I Tutor

This is absolutely AMAZING!!! (imho)

As I've mentioned many times, if I had been able to find a book that contained these rootless voicings for guitar (and believe me, I looked and looked), I would have simply shelled out the twenty bucks or whatever and saved myself the hundreds of hours that it took to work these up from scratch.

Never in my wildest dreams, though, did I expect for collaborators with the expertise and professionalism of Messrs. Bianco and Ersdal to come out of the woodwork and take this over the top. This is a project that has really blossomed into something that will benefit generations of guitarists the world over.

Here is the link to Gerhard's tablature (pdf - 9 pages):
Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences pdf

Here is the link to my original grids at Wholenote.com:
Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences

If you know any guitarists that could benefit from these voicings, please forward the above URLs to them

Best Wishes,

Jeff Brent

[DonEsteban]

I saw this Ii V I Tutor today and was really surprised that someone put such an effort in such a thing. Would not have been too useful to me. Why should I sit there in front of da screen and let a computer calculate voicings for me?

I spent - don't know how many weeks of my life - sitting in the sun with my humble six strings and figure them all out. Learning with my fingers AND my ears, what I like, what I can physically play (not all fingers can play all stuff) and last but not least, this way I could memorize the stuff, which I otherwise never would. Root or not, BTW.

That's just my 2cents on topic...

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

I saw this Ii V I Tutor today and was really surprised that someone put such an effort in such a thing. Would not have been too useful to me. Why should I sit there in front of da screen and let a computer calculate voicings for me?

I spent - don't know how many weeks of my life - sitting in the sun with my humble six strings and figure them all out. Learning with my fingers AND my ears, what I like, what I can physically play (not all fingers can play all stuff) and last but not least, this way I could memorize the stuff, which I otherwise never would. Root or not, BTW.

+1.

Or maybe I'm a dinosaur. There was another post recently where the poster lamented he couldn't practice guitar in his free time at work because he couldn't access the right software

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

I spent - don't know how many weeks of my life - sitting in the sun with my humble six strings and figure them all out.

sounds great. You could have taken my pdf's with you in the sun I guess you managed very well without, but others may find them useful.

[DonEsteban]

Of course, I'm posting my opinion solely, others may go completely other ways. And of course is my way only my way... and now...the...end..is...how goes it on? :-)

[DonEsteban]

Sorry just now I understand that you did this II V I Voicing Calculator thing. Great work anyway, sorry I did not intent to insult you or debase your work in any way, just doesn't seem to be made for me.

[franamico]

Originally Posted by markf

The style got a big boost from Scott La Faro.

Yeah,
Wow, that's true. I have those recordings. I had almost forgotten that!
God I last time listened to to Scott La Faro I was 16...you brought me back to lots of years ago...

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

Sorry just now I understand that you did this II V I Voicing Calculator thing. Great work anyway, sorry I did not intent to insult you or debase your work in any way, just doesn't seem to be made for me.

I can't take any credit for the the work funnyval did, I just made the pdfs.

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

+1. Or maybe I'm a dinosaur. There was another post recently where the poster lamented he couldn't practice guitar in his free time at work because he couldn't access the right software

I don't know exactly how that applies to my post. There's pdfs here that you can print and pretend they are books

"Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact."
- George Eliot (1819-1880)

[JohnRoss]

Originally Posted by GuitaRoland

JohnRoss, you seem to have a great sense of humour. Why don't you tell us forum members from Scandinavia where you are located? Maybe we have something to learn about humour from where you come from?

/R

Dunno how he's done it, but Don Esteban has pinpointed me. Apart from that, I don't think it's where I come from, so much as that you have a lot to learn about humour. And good manners. My mother brought me up to nod and smile when someone made a joke, whether or not I thought it was funny, because not doing so is simply rude.

Or perhaps what we are looking at here is that Scandinavia is the place trolls come from?

[JohnW400]

I think all the work put into the tutor is comendable so a big pat on the back to Jeff Brent, Joe and Gersdal.

Not only is it a free resource, it's helpful to all those beginners looking for a little help.


As a matter of fact I see these types of contributions coming from Fep, Gerdal , Jeff and only a few others. I'd like to see more.

Would be nice to see some 'meat and potatoes' things and not just 25 threads about what gear to buy.

[derek]

Let's keep the personal stuff out of it fellas.

[Gramps]

The rootless ii,V,I tutor is great. I don't think there can be too many tools to teach (jazz or anything else). But even with these tools opening the "knowledge door", we each have to spend time like DonEstebon did to walk through the door, turn on the light and internalize it. All roads to knowledge.

Ok, now where is my root......oh here it is. Ahhhhhh......

LOL

[GuitaRoland]

When I started this thread I could never imagine that the interest would be as it developed to. My question had to do with the fact that I in the mid 80's was asked to play in our local Big Band. Two of my fellow musicians were in the Band (the singer and the drummer) and at that time it was hard to find a guitar player in our little town. We had another band together and they pushed me to try out with the Big Band.

I didn't read music but I had a decent idea of, and could read chord progressions. What I didn't have was the knowledge of the chords in different positions. I soon realised that I had to simplify the chords otherwise I wouldn't have the time to play the chord progressions. So - I tried to keep things as minimal as possible trying to simplify the chords. I had to find the closest positions because I didn't have time to look at the fret board at the same time as I was looking at the sheet.

That's how I learned to play the chords as simple as possible, the 3d, to tell if it was major or minor, the 7th to tell if it was major or dominant and besides the altered (flat or sharp 9th) notes I avoided the 5th if it wasn't sharp or flat. Of course I played the 11th, the 13th, major or minor, etc. I play with my fingers and keep the pick inside my hand, just bringing it out when necessary.

After that I almost never play the root it just a habit that I developed under those years trying to do my best with the Big Band. And what about the root - it will be there anyhow (or is it -anyway?).

/R

[DonEsteban]

Underwent similar school like you, playing big band for years. Found it raaaather enlightening, trying to find the voicing, especially when we got some American (original??) copies of Count Basie arrangements. Sat there nights to find the right Freddy Green way of chaining the voicings together.

Later I understood the code they used to make clear how exactly the arranger wanted it to be played.

Very disappointing, never to get THAT sound, until I say photos and realized, that he held the guitar on his knees and played mostly a Spanish guitar. No wonder that me and my Japanese electric sounded so awfully different!

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

Underwent similar school like you

Interesting! I did even rewrite some of the analysis (chords) that we were presented to in the Big Band to make them easier to read (for me). I didn't understand like a sharp 11 until I understood that on the guitar the flat 5 would be the way to handle this chord.

On the piano you have the possibility to use both hands resulting in 10 notes while on the guitar you have 6 at the most. Using all 6 would result in barre´ chords (thats what we call them in Sweden) where you mostly play the same note more than once (octaves). That kind of chords I never use nowdays and it wouldn't be possible if you want to play those jazzy altered chords.

Once again - interesting to hear that I'm not alone thinking and going through the same progress!

/R