Using Mickey Baker Chords in a Combo

[DustyRusty]

HI Everyone,

I know there are previous thread's on Mickey Baker, but i couldn't find any on this question.

I've been playing jazz for about 10 years now but bought the book because of its great rep and also to get more of a typical and mainstream jazz course (my teacher wasn't jazz trained).

It's been a good book. I've loved his chord substitutions and progression they sound very cool.

My question is this: how are the chords meant to be used? Will they work in the following situations:

1) Playing in a quintet with horns and a piano where the piano is playing the straight (unsubstituted chords)? Will MB's substititions work over the normal ones?

2) Playing in a quintet with horns and piano where the piano is playing his/her own (different) substitutions?

3) Playing with just a bass and guitar and melody instrument? Will MB's chord substitutions be strong enough to support the melody?

Would really appreciate some advice from players who are more experienced with applying his chord theory to playing in a combo.

thanks!

DR

[peterk1]

I've been thinking about this one a little bit.
If the tune supports the guitar playing Freddie Green type rhythm (quarter notes, mostly muted), I think you'll do fine even with a piano also comping. Try to stay out of the bassist's way with the lower notes.

If the tune would not work well with that type of rhythm playing (ie. some slower ballads) then I would probably use smaller chords or fragments of the Baker chords if there's a piano going. The piano is probably going to be the primary comper unless you arrange beforehand to swap.

If you have Band In A Box , I would just try it out on a few tunes to take a quick look to see what you can come up with using those chords with and without the piano present.

The Baker substitutions should work. From what I've seen so far (I'm only on lesson 12) he's mainly :

o playing a min7 built on the 3rd of some Major chords. This will give you a maj9 sound and stops the guitar from playing the root. That should pretty much always sound good.

o playing a min7 chord build on the 5th of Dom chords and that's going to give you a dom11 and no root in the guitar.

Guitar and piano can be very tricky regardless of whether he is substituting or not. Your job will largely be trying to add something without getting in his way. Easiest way to do that is to become part of the drums and keep time with percussive strumming. You can get away with a lot there, because you're keeping the chords short and muted for the most part.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by peterk1

Guitar and piano can be very tricky regardless of whether he is substituting or not. Your job will largely be trying to add something without getting in his way. Easiest way to do that is to become part of the drums and keep time with percussive strumming. You can get away with a lot there, because you're keeping the chords short and muted for the most part.

See if you can find some recording of the Oscar Peterson Trio (Oscar, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown). They also back other artists. Herb will often lay down a rhythmic groove and Oscar with do chord stabs.

[DustyRusty]

Peterk1 - thanks for that! The freedie green style approach is what i've done in the past when playing with a piano. I guess i was just interested to see how MB actually intended his progressions to be used. I felt like some of the progressions would sound kinda weird if a piano was playing his/her own subs.

I do have an old 4 track at home so i think that will have to be my band in the box to try out how to use these subs.

But thanks for the reply!

DR