lines, comping, mr conti

[rafapak]

hi guys

I bought mr conti's dvd for beginners. I learnt satin doll lines already. I have zero knowledge in relation to comping chords in jazz. When I play together with a rhythm track I have troubles with knowing ' where I am with my solo' in a song. I just don't know what bass is doing and chords are not played in regular strums which confuses me obviously because I have zero knowledge in relation to comping. I have troubles to ' see' the chords as they are passing therefore I also get lost rhytmically with my lines. Do you think that if one wants to play lines over chords accompaniament he or she should learn about comping first?

any comments will be highly appreciated

[derek]

Good questions. So many of us are interested in soloing, and really dive into that. However, as polyphonic instrumentalists, we spend the bulk our time comping. For many players, comping is what you have to do before you get to solo, just kind of a bother. Guys like Jim Hall have made taken comping to a higher level, and make it their job to help the soloist sound better.

Knowing a tune by it's melody, it at least a couple of different places on the neck, and being able to play the chords in different areas are prerequisites to really being able to solo over a tune convincingly imo. Conti's stuff is fine, and I am a believer in using whatever works. However, knowing the tune is more important that learning some lines that will work over it. Hope that helps.

[pierre richard]

knowing the chord spelling and scales that work over those chords is something to get started on...

Like the "C" chord...the notes are c - e - g....and the scale is c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c

play the roots only throughout the first chorus..halves or quarters....the next chorus play the first five notes of the scale...play 1/4s & 1/8s if need be to fit them within the measure..does this make any sense to you?

listen to other players..what are they playing...you may not know the notes but ..are they playing alot of notes per measure or just a few...

look for transcriptions of tunes and look at what the artist played over the chord progression..

time on the instrument is most important...pierre

[Goofsus4]

Yes, I do believe you must be able to comp before you can solo convincingly. You don't have to be sophisticated, either - just be able to play the chords in time and with good rhythm.

Record yourself comping the changes to the tune, then solo over that using the lines you learned. If you don't have a way to record yourself, I would strongly recommend buying something as soon as possible.

Satin Doll is a great learning song. Those are classic jazz changes you will see repeatedly. They are great sounds to get into your ears.

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

Yes, I do believe you must be able to comp before you can solo convincingly. You don't have to be sophisticated, either - just be able to play the chords in time and with good rhythm.

Record yourself comping the changes to the tune, then solo over that using the lines you learned. If you don't have a way to record yourself, I would strongly recommend buying something as soon as possible.

Satin Doll is a great learning song. Those are classic jazz changes you will see repeatedly. They are great sounds to get into your ears.

thanks goof, I have recorder so it is not a problem for me to record my playing. My teacher says that it is also important to learn to solo with arpeggios of the chords. According to my teacher this helps to learn a song. What do you think ? This is also question to other people.

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by rafapak

thanks goof, I have recorder so it is not a problem for me to record my playing. My teacher says that it is also important to learn to solo with arpeggios of the chords. According to my teacher this helps to learn a song. What do you think ? This is also question to other people.

Without question! The arps are real cornerstone of playing through changes instead of just fitting scales over them. The arps are where the music resides.

[Reg]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

Without question! The arps are real cornerstone of playing through changes instead of just fitting scales over them. The arps are where the music resides.

You guys are in a great direction... Reg

[musicjohnny]

I find that when I'm playing the changes with arpeggios, It sounds rather boring. Any advice?

[pierre richard]

just alter the rhythm in the arpeggios...

yes when learning them play straight 1/8s like a classical player..

but rhythm is the spice jazz players use to make them jazz...

instead of 4 1/8ths (which equals two beats)play one quarter note and one 1/8 note triplet..or one 1/8th note triplet and one 1/4 note...

a starting point....

time on the instrument without interuptions ...pierre

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

I find that when I'm playing the changes with arpeggios, It sounds rather boring. Any advice?

Pierre has great advice on this, but I'd also offer that it helps to approach some of the chord tones from a half a step away. That may be a chromatic note like the b5 or it may be a non-arp note from the related scale, such as the 9. Also you should try skipping intervals and what I call backstepping, so over a C Major 7 chord at the 8th fret position, third string, instead of playing the typical diagonally rising arp to the sixth string like 7 1 3 5 7 1, you could play something like 1 7 1 3 1 5 3 7 5 1 7 5 3. The rise then fall can make for insteresting sounds. That's why I'm a big fan of just playing over one chord at a time exhaustively. If you just loop a Major 7 for instance and just experiment with different ways to play the arp without just running up and down it, you will start building an inventory of original lines.

[derek]

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

I find that when I'm playing the changes with arpeggios, It sounds rather boring. Any advice?

In addition to what the fellas have already mentioned, an occassional chromatic note or two makes a big difference also.

[Reg]

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

I find that when I'm playing the changes with arpeggios, It sounds rather boring. Any advice?

Great advice so far, would add that using arpeggios, scales,double stops, pedals, etc... are just methods of expressing what your trying say or hear in your head. Most techniques are boring when you mechanically play them on your axe. But after some time of mechanically playing them, you begin to be able to hear them in your head, and an entire phrase of arpeggios feels like a single note. They become part of your personal tools or licks to express your self. I'm a pretty accomplished musician, read and write music well, play a ton of gigs, have a few degrees yada yada... means shit..except that I've put my time in. Arpeggios are one of many technical mechanics you need to get together if your going to play jazz, be patience and enjoy the road...Reg

[Reg]

Originally Posted by musicjohnny

I find that when I'm playing the changes with arpeggios, It sounds rather boring. Any advice?

Forgot to give some techs. I use arpeggios as grace notes to make slower single note lines or melodies have a little more harmonic or rhythmic motion. Learn how to arp. all the basic chord tones of chords. Ex; Start with 2nd position Gmaj7,( position is where your 1st. finger rests) 4th string G , 4th finger , 5th fret; 3rd string, 3rd finger, 4th fret; 2nd string, 3rd fret, 2nd finger and finally your target not, F#, 1st string, 2nd fret, 1st finger. ( G, B, D and F# ), next 4th position; 4th string, 7th fret, 4th finger; 3rd string, 2nd finger, 5th fret; 2nd string, 2nd finger, 5th fret and again target note, 1st string, 3rd fret, 1st finger, you stretch your 1st finger to reach the G on the 1st string. ( A, C, E, and G ) Work your way up the neck until 14th position an octave from where you started. That's one style or technique of arps used as grace notes, to approach a note. This method can be used with, 2,3,4,5 or all 6 strings ( arpeggios ). When you actually use this lick, standards don't usually hang in the same key, so you need to be able to play the licks in all keys and also from melodic and harmonic minors, that's 21 chords in 12 keys, that may sound like a lot, but a lot of the fingerings are the same, it's not that bad. Usually you find a few that you like or change something on one and they become your licks or part of your way of expressing yourself. Good luck and enjoy Reg

[musicjohnny]

Sweet, some new stuff to integrate into my session today, thanks fellas.