chord progression help?

[pick up soap]

I understand that if you are playing a 2 5 1 in c major, the root notes are D G and C. But how do you find out what the rest of the chord is?

Thanks

[rabbit]

Called 'harmonizing the scale:'

C..D..E..F..G..A..B..C
E..F..G..A..B..C..D..E
G..A..B..C..D..E..F..G
B..C..D..E..F..G..A..B

Read the above vertically and you get:
CMaj7,D-7,E-7,FMaj7,G7,A-7,B-7b5

Howdy!

[pick up soap]

Can you harmonize it any way as long as the notes you are using are in the same scale/key?

Sorry new to jazz.

[rabbit]

You've got to follow the formula, to start with at least, and also
to properly answer your original question.

The chords in the example I posted would be called:
CMaj7 is the one, Dminor7 is the two, Eminor7 is the three, etc.
Your 2-5-1 would be Dminor7, G7, Cmaj7.

Some one will come along and reference you to a site that
explains all of this but I've got to sleep now. Sorry.
Perhaps this is available in the lessons section of this very site.
Good luck.

[pick up soap]

The second chord is Dm7 In D7 the F is sharp, E7 has a G# in it, the 4th chord is an Fmajor7 the 5th chord is a G7, there is no C in A7, I do not know B-7b5, am I going mad?

Anyway you got your point across, cheers man.

[rjtorres]

Originally Posted by pick up soap

Can you harmonize it any way as long as the notes you are using are in the same scale/key?

Sorry new to jazz.

Rabbit's comment is very interesting (it's the first time I've seen this representation, and it looks very useful to other students.)

Cmaj7
C..
E..
G..
B..

Dm7
D..
F..
A..
C..

Em7
E..
G..
B..
D..

(continue the progression here)
F..G..A..B..C
A..B..C..D..E
C..D..E..F..G
E..F..G..A..B

B-7b5 is B minor 7 flat 5, or B half-diminished (or according to the guide above, notes B D F A).

The notes above are the 1st 3rd 5th and 7th (of the chord), which essentially forms the chords (3 notes or more).

(Don't be confused with the word 3rds, 4ths, sometime people refer to them from the point of view of the chord, and sometimes from the note. Like the 3rd note of Dm7 is F, and the flat 3rd note from D in the key of C is F.)

Given that, yes you can harmonize with other notes as long as it's in the same key (even use other scales!), but it's important to keep the chord tones in place. Normally, the strongest chord tones are the 3rd note and the 7th - so if you're playing Cmaj7, you can play B and E and still sound like Cmaj7 (although it's not as clear as playing with the root, and more so with the 5th.) Other notes (2nd, 4th, 6th or 9th, 11th, 13th) will act as extensions, although they're not necessarily arranged in order (mix and match!)

Given this, you can play E, B, and D, an sound like a Cmaj7(9) (or also, an Em7 depending on how you intend to see it). From my experience, keeping the 3rd and 7th keeps the chord's identity and will not clash with other musicians you are playing with (especially if you're all using the same sheet music.)

So:
Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj7
Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj7
Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj7

Can be:
Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj7
Dm7 - G7 - Em7 (Low E - E - B - D) - Am9 (A - E - G - B)
Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 - Cmaj7

(Progressions are prolonged for you to see the movement when listening to this)

I've already showed how Cmaj7(9) can be Em7, now let's look at Am9:
Am9 (A - E - G - B)
< 3rd (E), 5th (G) and 7th (B) chord tones with a 13 extension (A) if you're looking at this as Cmaj7(13)
< root (A), 5th (E), and a 7th (G) with a 9th (B) extension if you're looking at this as an Am chord

Experimenting on this will give you ideas on basic chord substitution, moving you closer to understanding harmony! (easier said than done)


But remember, these are not rules, just guidelines! We can always find a note outside the chord tones, and still sound fine.


I'm not really an expert so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[bako]

The chords have the names and consequently the sounds that they have as a result of the intervals between their component notes.
Building 7th chords in this way from the major scale yields 4 different interval combinations and therefore 4 chord names.

Major 7= 1 3 5 7 (Cma7----Fma7)
minor 7= 1 b3 5 b7 (Dm7----Em7----Am7)
7th= 1 3 5 b7 (G7)
minor 7b5= 1 b3 b5 b7 (Bm7b5)

The minor 7th b5 is similiar to the minor 7th except for the flat 5th.

You can build chords from any combination of notes from the scale but the sounds are often heard as variants on these fundamental harmonies.

[rabbit]

pick up soap,

Sorry if I failed to really help you.

Yeah, this stuff is a bit complicated.

I failed to literally point out the formula of
using the tones of a scale (the word for which is 'diatonic')
and then using every other tone to construct a series
of chords that constitute the harmonic family for that key.
Works for the natural minor scale too. There is actually
a great deal more info (& music!) embedded in all of
this, but I don't want to explode your head.

[pick up soap]

It heklped a great deal, but take a look at what you wrote, it says the wrong chord names I think, thanks for the help.

[rjtorres]

Originally Posted by pick up soap

It heklped a great deal, but take a look at what you wrote, it says the wrong chord names I think, thanks for the help.

Ah! Sometime Dm7 is written as D-7. Minor is substituted as a dash (-).

[pick up soap]

oh sorry, I forgot about that, so turns out I was wrong, anyway I learnt two things.

[rabbit]