two approaches to comping

[rafapak]

hi guys

this is rafal here. If you don't mind it I would like to ask you to explain few things to me. Namely I wonder what is the difference between the following styles of comping:

1. You can comp with walking bass lines on your guitar when your guitar is the only comping instrument.
2. You can comp on your guitar and play together with a bassist who deliveres bass lines which probably means that as a guitarist you comp without bass lines.

Do you think it works like that in reality?


In what ways your comping must be different when you
1. comp on your own as a guitar player doing walking bass lines simultaneously with playing chords
2. comp together with the bassist ( probably without doing walking bass lines as a guitarist)

I hope it is not too confusing.

regards
rafal

[musicjohnny]

Well, when it's just the guitar by itself you're usually alot more busy
since you're making up for the lack of instruments. This would include, like you mentioned, walking bass lines, voice leading, and adding melodic lines between chords and such.

And when you're comping with a bassist, since the Bass player will usually play the root and/or 5th, this gives the guitar a wider range of possibilities. Since you don't have to play the root, you'll find guys just playing all sorts of extensions of chords in the higher voices.

Hope this helped, John.

[bako]

We can play anything we want in any situation but improvisation is risky business. One way to increase the margin for success in a group situation is to play in distinct registers, musical functions and parts of the beat.

[rafapak]

thanks guys

[hot ford coupe]

One thing this site has taught me is when you play with other instruments, less is definitely more. When I play by myself, I play 4 and 5 note chords which includes the 5th or 6th string. It's usually one or the other, rarely both. When I play with a bass player, I stay away from the 5th and 6ths strings and play 3 or 4 note chords. When there's a piano playing, it's 1, 2 or 3 note chords in the higher registers. Usually with those, I let the piano player do most of the extentions and stick to the root, 3 and 7th notes. If you're not sure what to do with more instruments, lower volume and the Freddie Green chords keep you safe.

[Flat3rd]

Originally Posted by bako

We can play anything we want in any situation but improvisation is risky business. One way to increase the margin for success in a group situation is to play in distinct registers, musical functions and parts of the beat.

Agreed. When there is a bass, it's a good idea to stay away from the lower register if you want to be heard (and invited back - not grimaced at or otherwise mistreated). Also, you might want to be careful around the downbeats. When there is a piano, don't comp over each other, maybe lay out or take turns. Basics to making good sound. If there is a bass line outlining the progressions, you don't have to do that. You can add more color to the sound with extensions and such. If there isn't a bass line, then outlining the progressions may be something important. Your choice. In general, trying too hard and playing too much are common mistakes.

[daudx]

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

One thing this site has taught me is when you play with other instruments, less is definitely more. When I play by myself, I play 4 and 5 note chords which includes the 5th or 6th string. It's usually one or the other, rarely both. When I play with a bass player, I stay away from the 5th and 6ths strings and play 3 or 4 note chords. When there's a piano playing, it's 1, 2 or 3 note chords in the higher registers. Usually with those, I let the piano player do most of the extentions and stick to the root, 3 and 7th notes. If you're not sure what to do with more instruments, lower volume and the Freddie Green chords keep you safe.

yeah, thats the way that everybody should do...
but when i play the 3rd and 7th of the chord i just use the d and g strings. should i learn playing the guidetones on the higher strings too or is it "normal" to play them just with the d and g strings?

sorry for my bad english, im tryin to do my best..

[Flat3rd]

Originally Posted by daudx

... just with the d and g strings?

Learn it all (or as much as you can), use what you want, when you want. Guide tones are not just for base lines, so learning them on higher strings is useful. You can use them for writing lines, not just on D and G strings.

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

and the Freddie Green chords keep you safe.

What kind of chords are these?

[SUguitarguy]

its more of a pattern/technique. "4 on the floor" typical chunka chunka chunk sound. Where the guitar plays on 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and....

YouTube - Freddie Green style big band rhythm guitar

[Big Ron]

It's probably been explained to death, but you could also think about it in terms of NOT a guitarist, but a musician.

If you are solo..and the only instrument and your instrument is a trumpet. You have to play one note lines or melody lines. You can be as good or fancy as you wish but you are going to play one note lines. You can do it standing on your head or break dancing but the audience will get one note melody lines out of your trumpet.

So to add to the music the trumpet guy finds a bass player, a piano player and a drummer, now we have a combo with a trumpet player - Wow it sounds a lot better.

Being a guitarist is a little like that except that you have an opportunity to sound six (or more) notes at a time, so do piano players, and others.

So you would use your instrument in such a way that you do your job that the music requires and not get in anyone anyone's way.

If there is a bass player you would not need to play bass lines. Do you know that the early Fender guitars were wired so that the bass sounding strings were really deep so that guitarists could play bass on their guitar?

If there is a piano or keyboard player they will be filling up the middle with you.

So if it is your solo time, I would think playing on the higher registers would be more appropriate for the mix, if the Piano guy is tickling the high ivories you might want to provide some thicker chord voiceing. If all just depends on the situation, the piece, and the groove.

Ron

[bifodus]

I think you really need to just use your ear and trust your instincts. There are simply too many different styles and situations. Far too many situations to be able to satisfactorily categorize them based on comping with bassist vs comping without bassist. For example, we can take it a step further: Is your bassist using an upright acoustic, a bass guitar, or the lower register of a piano? Even these options might require that you play (however slightly) different. Ultimately, you'll have to use your ear and throw out the verbiage, because there are far too many intricacies to capture it all in any text.

In order to really play well within an idiom, you need to be know your guitar in and out, and you need to listen to a lot of music within that idiom. Do you think it would be possible to capture the essence of blues by simply reading about its form and melodic/harmonic content? Of course not. It's 99% about listening.