Ever practise ballads with a metronome?

[whippersnapper]

I find this tricky. I can do medium-fast tempo tunes fine with a metronome no problem, but I find anything below 60 tough. I think of ballad-phrasing kinda different from medium-fast tempo tunes too. I feel I have good time generally over ballads, but was just wondering if anyone does this and found it benefitial?

[Jake Hanlon]

I'd say practice everything w. metronome and above all Ballads especially!

One of my favorite experiences was playing Ballads with this bass player once at a clinic and he started to walk, sort of hinting double time and the clinician went up to the bass player and demanded he not play double time and said.

"it's a ballad, play it like a ballad"

It should be slow and emotive. I realized in my life that anytime I played a ballad that rhythm players would get double time happening for no reason other then it helped their own ability to feel the beat in a smaller subdivision and they were unable to pocket that for themselves. Meaning they couldn't count their subdivision and play a longer one to keep the tempo steady.

Since then I worked methodically at ballad playing and did so with a Metronome set between 50 and 72 depending on how I felt. 72 imo is the absolute fastest ballad tempo, anything faster just sort of feels too rushed to me (just my personal thing) and anything below 50 is too drawn out. Although once played a ballad in a jam session at 40 and it was extremely fun, just it's pretty hard to find guys to trust at that slow a tempo.

I want to play ballads all the time as there are just some amazing Ballad players that I work with.

Long and short, use a metronome. Subdivide accurately and you'll havce no issue.

[Sailor]

Thanks Jake...I always play ballads, relatively slowly, and never use my metronome. Now I will start!!! Sounds like good advice.

Sailor

[derek]

I find playing slow with a metronome is MUCH harder than playing upbeat.

[djangoles]

A bass player friend of mine took some lessons from Rufus Reid, and Rufus told him that he should learn every tune as a ballad, even if it's an uptempo one. I've found doubling up the metronome setting helps at first to get the subdivisions internalized. After you're comfortable with that then just make them quarters.

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon

Since then I worked methodically at ballad playing and did so with a Metronome set between 50 and 72 depending on how I felt. 72 imo is the absolute fastest ballad tempo, anything faster just sort of feels too rushed to me (just my personal thing) and anything below 50 is too drawn out. Although once played a ballad in a jam session at 40 and it was extremely fun, just it's pretty hard to find guys to trust at that slow a tempo.

Thanks, I really appreciate the advice. I actually just tried a ballad with a metronome on 50 and I could play it confidentally. Just seemed a little rushed for me...

I tend to practise ballads on band in a box at around 70-80 so on a metronome that's like 30-40 which is what I really struggle with! Mabye I am just playing 'em too slow...

[John Curran]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I tend to practise ballads on band in a box at around 70-80 so on a metronome that's like 30-40 which is what I really struggle with! Mabye I am just playing 'em too slow...

No such thing as too slow, in practicing at least. Slow tempos are the hardest to hold, for individual players and ensembles as well. The measure of a good rhythm section is it's ability to hold a slow tempo.

All of Jake's advice is gospel.

Find a good looking metronome and marry it.

john

Also what kind of metronome are you using? There should not be that much difference in the tempos between BIAB and the metronome. If your using the old 'Franz' type electric metronome which has a piston that clicks against the interior of the case, it may require recalibration as the vibrations tend to knock the metronome out of calibration over time.

[vsaumarez]

My rule is don't practice anything without a metronome, whether ballads or uptempo. Both extremes present their own challenges, and some players specialize in one or the other. Ballads are all about mood, so just doubling up to make up for lost sustain on a guitar isn't going to do the tune justice, unless you are Pat Martino. Martin Taylor is a great ballad player, or someone like Jim Hall. Listen and analyze what they do, not just the notes they play. Are they inside the tune's mood? How they use silence, rhythmical ideas, chordal flourishes, and never get ahead of the beat, or rush things.

[eye2eye]

When playing very slow tempos, I like to have no sound on the metronome.. with only having a good visual keeping the tempo... I found that the Matrix Mr 600 has a great sound like the Franz but the visuals let you see in between the beat... this works out great for tunes below 60 bpm..

I got my metronome at .... metronomes.net... they have a sound file so you can hear how close it is to the Franz...

I play on a very old Howard Roberts ... (round hole) and also a Benedetto Bravo....

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I find this tricky. I can do medium-fast tempo tunes fine with a metronome no problem, but I find anything below 60 tough. I think of ballad-phrasing kinda different from medium-fast tempo tunes too. I feel I have good time generally over ballads, but was just wondering if anyone does this and found it benefitial?

Interesting, I went through my chord melody repertoire today, did every tune as a very slow ballad to the 'nome. I learned a lot. Some of the quicker tunes were on automatic pilot and played slowly I had to think! Thought I had an original idea til I checked this thread! I want to tighten up my ballad playing, it's what I seem to be really good at. I enjoy the way chords develop when held out.

I much prefer to only have the metronome click on 2 and 4 for time keeping though.

[JakeAcci]

I think it's great to practice all tunes both burnin' and as ballads. Very challenging depending on the tune. Sometimes some interesting results. I had a verrrrrry slow arrangement of Countdown I used to do as a duo with horn.

Definitely great to shed ballads with a metronome. I have an app on my iphone called webmetronome, it can go down to literally one beat per minute. Great to feel time at ridiculously slow tempos, or feel the half note at ballad tempo, which can be as slow as 25 bpm.

[markf]

Originally Posted by derek

I find playing slow with a metronome is MUCH harder than playing upbeat.

the best jazz player I have known said, it's easier to play fast than to play slow.

for some very beautiful slow playing l really like the album with herby hancock, michael brecker, pat methane, jack de johnette,

named

Michael Brecker - Nearness Of You: The Ballad Book CD Album

very Beautiful music.

[markf]

pat methane

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by markf

pat methane

I got that on autocorrect the other day

[bako]

Learning to swing at extreme slow tempos will greatly improve your overall feel.
This is different than slowing down with the goal of perfecting technical execution.
This can be done with any tune, not just limited to ballads and it is very challenging.

[oldane]

The same here. Slow tempos are the hardest. These days I mostly play 4-to-the bar swing rhythm and there it's not good enough to be almost there. One got to be exactly there or the whole band falls apart. I use a metronome most of the time when practicing. Charlton Johnson suggests in his book on Freddie Green style comping that one should have the metronome play half time to mimic the high hat on 2 and 4. Try that at 45/min.

[mr. beaumont]

I don't use a metronome much--they irritate me after a while. I usually open up Band in a Box, pick a rhythm and tempo, and mute everything except the drums. For some reason, I find this much easier to deal with than a metronome (and I get to hear how I'm swinging too...)

[sc06yl]

I sat in a lesson with a bass player friend being taught be Chris Tarry, whose time feel is for lack of a better word, perfect. One of the most insane exercises I have ever seen anybody doll out started as a pretty simple one. He said 'play 16th notes and every group accent the next 16th note' which sounds pretty simple. But then he set the metronome on his iphone to like 35 bbm, and then used that as the click for 4 beats, and then played 16th notes for a whole bar, while displacing accents, keeping them in perfect time, is pretty insane, even just on one note. Explains how he has such an epic feel for time though. I gave up on it pretty quick.

You should always have something keeping time when you practice. It is important to develop good time feel. It is harder for slower tunes, but that makes it even more important. The best ballad players keep a lot of space, but have the grid locked down in good time.

[mynewguitar]

Yeah! Keeping on the beat in slower songs can definitely be a challenge. You just have to let go and trust the rhythm. Tolerating the emotion and the pulse is not an easy thing to do. Listen to some old R & B songs like "Rainy Night in Georgia" or a slower Aretha song and you can hear the bass player very often playing just one note every measure. It tantalizes and stretches the imagination.

I think using a metronome or any kind of "clock" is a very good way to get comfortable with feeling the beat, but I think you can also expand your rhythmic skills and sense of timing by slowing down the inner conversation, acknowledging when your mind is racing, and taking a few deep breaths.

I know, I know - I'm getting a little philosophical and mystical - I can't help myself