remembering chord voicings

[rafapak]

can you recommend guys any method for remembering chord voicings . jazzers know hundrerds of them but I don't believe they try to memorize every fingering of every chord voicing they come across. they probably put them in progressions or something or maybe some musical contexts so that it is easier to remember many voicings. Well , I don't know
If you know any interesting method for remembering many voicings resulting in ability to apply interesting voicings in songs, please let me know

any comments will be appreciated

[patskywriter]

keep practicing. follow a 'melody line' when going from chord to chord to make your sound more 'musical.'

[derek]

Originally Posted by rafapak

can you recommend guys any method for remembering chord voicings . jazzers know hundrerds of them but I don't believe they try to memorize every fingering of every chord voicing they come across. they probably put them in progressions or something or maybe some musical contexts so that it is easier to remember many voicings. Well , I don't know
If you know any interesting method for remembering many voicings resulting in ability to apply interesting voicings in songs, please let me know

any comments will be appreciated

Interesting method? Not that I am aware of. Practicing them around the key circle, in chord scales, and then plugging them into every tune you can are the only ways I know to get new shapes under your fingers. Always a certain amount of monkey work with this sort of thing. Good luck

[fep]

CAGED is a good method

You learn 5 basic chord forms.

Then you learn all the related scale degrees in those forms.

Then you learn the theory of chord constructions.

Then you learn how to adjust and combine those chord forms to come up with hundreds of chords.

[fep]

Another way to learn voicings is to harmonize a scale going up the neck.

And another way is to start with a chord form and head up the neck by going to the next chord tone for each string of that form. Hard to explain but here it is with this sites chord diagrams. Note these are all C7 chords the numbers are the scale degrees of the chord. Observe how the 3rd moves up to the 5th, the 7th moves up to the root, the 5th to the 7th, and the root to the third, but all on the same string. You can do this kind of thing with any chord form moving it up or down the neck which will yield tons of voicings.




||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-7-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|







||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-7-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|






||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-7-|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-1-|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-5-|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[rafapak]

thanks guys!

[Goofsus4]

Arrange your own chord melodies. It will help you remember various voicings because you will have to figure out different ways to voice to accomodate the melody line and a realistic fingering, and then you will need to practice those voicings again and again to keep the song up to performance level. I've been working on chord melodies pretty intensively lately and I've been amazed at how much better I've become at seeing options for chord voicings all over the neck now.

[mr. beaumont]

don't memorize shapes, learn the fretboard and the notes in the chords. that's the surefire method.

goofsus' comment about arraging chord melodies is also good, as it will force you to do the above.

[FatJeff]

Repetition (at first), and regular use (after you get them down). That's the only way I can remember them all.

[rafapak]

thanks

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

Arrange your own chord melodies. It will help you remember various voicings because you will have to figure out different ways to voice to accomodate the melody line and a realistic fingering, and then you will need to practice those voicings again and again to keep the song up to performance level. I've been working on chord melodies pretty intensively lately and I've been amazed at how much better I've become at seeing options for chord voicings all over the neck now.

hi sus

is there any method for learning how to create your own chord melodies or everything one has to do is just to sit with a guitar and try to come up with voicings that utilize your melody note as a top note. Is there any coursebook that teaches you how to effectively create your own chord melody arrangements. what I mean is that since i am a beginner it is likely that my own selections of voicings will sound awkward. Maybe there is a coursebook that will help me to create more interesting arrangements when compared to those I am able to prepair myself.

when you arrange your own cord melodies do you create your own songs or just try to arrange already known songs, standards as chord melody arrangements. Maybe you do both?

any comments will be highly appreciated

regards
rafal

[derek]

I am not Goofsus4, but I can point you to a couple of methods. First is from a guy I study with some, Jody Fisher.

Amazon.com: The Total Jazz Guitarist (Book & CD) (0038081265780): Jody Fisher: Books

First part, he walks you thru all the tools you need, scales, arps, triads, chords, etc. Next step is he teaches you how to put together the melody with the chords. He then shows you how to put together a good comping approach using a simple leadsheet. Finally, he shows you how to develop a solo over the tune. He walks you thru this process on 4 different tunes, so at the end you can comp creatively, solo and play a CM over all 4 tunes. By following this method, you can do the same for any tune you wish.

The other way you can go is with Robert Conti. His method, while a bit simple and cut and paste, gets you up and running pretty quickly. Here is his site.

Jazz Guitar Learning Resources

I would say that another thing that can be done is to collect a number of arrangements, there are quite a number of books out there available full of arrangements, and start learning them. After a while, you will pick up on how they work, and can then assemble them yourself. Which ever way you go, good luck.

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by rafapak

can you recommend guys any method for remembering chord voicings . jazzers know hundrerds of them but I don't believe they try to memorize every fingering of every chord voicing they come across. they probably put them in progressions or something or maybe some musical contexts so that it is easier to remember many voicings. Well , I don't know
If you know any interesting method for remembering many voicings resulting in ability to apply interesting voicings in songs, please let me know

I do not have a method as such for remembering chord voicings, but the following methods is good for exploring voicings ... and as a result I do remember more voicings:
1) Find a fake book (or real book) and choose a tune.
2) Selct one position (e.g. 5th fret) and find voicings for all chords in the tune in that position (that should in the 5th fret example preferably be 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th fret, but with acceptance for 4th or 9th fret if needed).
3) Find voicings for all the chords in the tune with constant tone in top voicing (you are now free to do any position you like, but the constant top tone will limit you a bit). You are allowed to do extensions and alterations, but try to make it musical.
4) Find voicings for all the chords in the tune that imply a chromatic movement of the top note in the voicing.
5) Find new voicing for each chord for each beat the chord is played (e.g. if you have C7 for on bar, you'll need four voicings of C7 (if it is a 4/4)). The next chord should be voiced as close as possible to the last voicing of the last chord... etc. Extensions and alterations are ok, but not staying in one position and just adding extensions.

This should force you to expanding your knowledge about voicings, and in the end you memory of possibilities.

[rafapak]

hi derek

thanks for suggestions
I own mr fisher's all four volumes of his jazz guitar course. I also ordered mr conti's dvds for beginners. One thing that worries me in relation to mr fisher's books is that he doesn't provide good system for learning in my opinion. yes , he presents everything in a good manner but I can't figure out how I should use his books. Just presenting stuff by somebody who already is a good player and knows everything is not enough I think for a student. Providing good system of learning for a student is something that matters. I like his chord melody arrangements but would like to know how to learn to create my own arrangements. Should I memorize mr fisher's arrangements or not? If I decide to learn by heart his arrangements I need to know whether it will contrubute to developing my own skills or not.
How the fact that he provided his arrangement relates to my learning? Method for learning is important for a student . He or she needs to know how to process the material provided by a teacher.

comments will be appreciated

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by gersdal

I do not have a method as such for remembering chord voicings, but the following methods is good for exploring voicings ... and as a result I do remember more voicings:
1) Find a fake book (or real book) and choose a tune.
2) Selct one position (e.g. 5th fret) and find voicings for all chords in the tune in that position (that should in the 5th fret example preferably be 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th fret, but with acceptance for 4th or 9th fret if needed).



3) Find voicings for all the chords in the tune with constant tone in top voicing (you are now free to do any position you like, but the constant top tone will limit you a bit).

do you mean I should find voicing for every single chord in a tune with root on top first, then with third on top and later with fifth on top e.t.c? on which string should be top voices?



You are allowed to do extensions and alterations, but try to make it musical.






4) Find voicings for all the chords in the tune that imply a chromatic movement of the top note in the voicing.

let's say that there is a chord with E on top and there is another chord with F in the bass. Should I find voicing of this second ( second I mean the one with F in the bass) chord with F on top?





5) Find new voicing for each chord for each beat the chord is played (e.g. if you have C7 for on bar, you'll need four voicings of C7 (if it is a 4/4)). The next chord should be voiced as close as possible to the last voicing of the last chord... etc. Extensions and alterations are ok, but not staying in one position and just adding extensions.

This should force you to expanding your knowledge about voicings, and in the end you memory of possibilities.

I can't operate quoting. My questions are under your statements above.
regards
rafal

[gersdal]

3) Find voicings for all the chords in the tune with constant tone in top voicing (you are now free to do any position you like, but the constant top tone will limit you a bit).

do you mean I should find voicing for every single chord in a tune with root on top first, then with third on top and later with fifth on top e.t.c? on which string should be top voices?
Say you have a simple blues in C, the C7 could be voiced like a C13 this way:

--10--
--10--
--9---
--8---
--x---
--x---

The F7 as a F13 this way:

--10--
--8--
--8--
--7 --
--x---
--x---

And the G7 as a G9 this way:

--10--
--10--
--10--
--9--
--x---
--x---

The top note of all these voicings are the D on the 10th fret of the first sting.

4) Find voicings for all the chords in the tune that imply a chromatic movement of the top note in the voicing.

let's say that there is a chord with E on top and there is another chord with F in the bass. Should I find voicing of this second ( second I mean the one with F in the bass) chord with F on top?

Yes, that sounds correct. The problem arises if the next chord is an A... where there are no F that could easily go on top. You'll then have to try what a A+ sounds like, or maybe you should have started with a E7 with a D on top, and continue with a A with a C# on top (chromatic down rather than up.. both is ok). It can be a puzzle, and sometimes you have to break the rule and start over again, but the longer lines the better!

Hope this was helpful.

[rafapak]

thanks gersdal

is common tone just synonymous with constant tone? are these two words describing the same concept?

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by rafapak

thanks gersdal

is common tone just synonymous with constant tone? are these two words describing the same concept?

English is not my first language, and I may easily be mistaken on these subtle issues of words. However, I would say there is a difference. There may be common tones between two chords (C7 and F7 have the common tone C, C13 and F13 has the common tones C, A, D, G). Constant tone is something else, to an extent… It could be seen as using one of these common tones as a constant tone in the bass or as a top note in the voicing.

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by gersdal

English is not my first language, and I may easily be mistaken on these subtle issues of words. However, I would say there is a difference. There may be common tones between two chords (C7 and F7 have the common tone C, C13 and F13 has the common tones C, A, D, G). Constant tone is something else, to an extent… It could be seen as using one of these common tones as a constant tone in the bass or as a top note in the voicing.

ok, it is clearer now, thanks

[patskywriter]

check out howard morgen's new book/CD, "chord melody and beyond." it's fabulous!

[Jazzyteach65]

There is an academic, organized systematic approach, one that HELPED ME OUT IMMENSELY! First off, there are five families of chord inversions. This means you can play one chord, four times in each family, so there are 5x4=20 ways to play a Cmaj7 chord.

Family one:lowest note is on the d string. The root voice is (from low to high: R357, 1st inversion, same family, lowest note 3, then 7R5. next INVERSION, 5,R37 then 735R. If you want all five families (families are divided by string groupings) I will be more than happy to post the rest

[cumin]

Jazzyteach, I am interested in better understanding your systematic approach. Can you post more?

[Jazzyteach65]

Cumin. So there are 5 families:

Family one: This family uses the D string for the lowest note, and uses the D, G, B and E strings. So your root position would be voiced like this:
R-on the D string, 5th on the G, 3rd on the B and 3rd on the high E
R,5,7,3
1st inversion:3,7,R,5
second inversion:5,R,3,7
third:7,3,5,R


Family two: The same as family one, only with the lowest note on the A string. This family uses the A string, D, G and B strings
so root position would be spelled from low to high:
R,5,7,3
1st inversion:3,7,R,5
second inversion:5,R,3,7
third:7,3,5,R

Family three: Lowest note is on the A string, but you don't include the d string in this family at all.So root position would be:R on the a string, 7th on the G string, third on the b string and fifth on the high e.
1ST INVERSION: 3rd on the A string, root on the g string, 5th on the b, and 7th on the high e
2nd inversion: 5th on the a string, 3rd on the g, 7th on the b string and R on the e
3rd inversion:7th on the A string, 5th on the G, R on the B and 3rd on the high e


Family Four is voiced EXACTLY like families 1 and 2, only the lowest note is on the low E this family has low E, A D and G strings
Root pos: R,5,7,3
1st inversion:3,7,R,5
second inversion:5,R,3,7
third inversion:7,3,5,R
Family Five uses the Low E, but skips the A string, and uses the D, G and B strings
Your root pos. would be voiced:R-low E, 7th on the D, 3rd on the G and 5th on the B
1ST INVERSION: 3rd on the E string, root on the D string, 5th on the G, and 7th on the B
2nd inversion: 5th on the E string, 3rd on the D, 7th on the G string and R on the B
3rd inversion:7th on the E string, 5th on the D, R on the G and 3rd on the B


I practice memorizing them by connecting ii-V-Is and turnarounds. There are more families I think, but I don't use or know them

[bako]

1 3 5 7 (EADG//ADGB//DGBE)
3 5 7 1
5 7 1 3
7 1 3 5

1 3 7 5 (EADB//ADGE)
3 5 1 7
5 7 3 1
7 1 5 3

1 5 7 3 (EADG//ADGB//DGBE)
3 7 1 5
5 1 3 7
7 3 5 1

1 5 3 7 (EAGB//ADBE)
3 7 5 1
5 1 7 3
7 3 1 5

1 7 3 5 (EDGB//AGBE)
3 1 5 7
5 3 7 1
7 5 1 3

1 7 5 3 (EDBE) or (EDGE)
3 1 7 5
5 3 1 7
7 5 3 1

Any 4 notes has 24 sequences (inversions)
People who like to do such things have assigned names to each of these.
These inversions can be used for any 7th chord type.
The string groups each type of family can be played are marked in ().

Ma7----1 3 5 7
7th-----1 3 5 b7
ma7+--1 3 #5 7
7th+---1 3 #5 b7
Ma7b5-1 3 b5 7
7thb5--1 3 b5 b7
MinMa7-1 b3 5 7
Min7---1 b3 5 b7
DimMa7-1 b3 b5 7
HalfDim-1 b3 b5 b7
Dim-----1 b3 b5 bb7 (6)
Ma7sus-1 4 5 7
7thsus--1 4 5 b7

I memorize these through by observing their similarities and differences from each other.
Sometimes I will play one inversion through all chord types.
Other days I might play one chord type through the 24 inversions.
The chords that are too hard I play broken style.

If we view each shape as an independent event well that's alot to remember. When we make connections between harmonies or different inversions it doesn't become easy, only somewhat more manageable.

[SteveCarter]

Originally Posted by rafapak

can you recommend guys any method for remembering chord voicings . jazzers know hundrerds of them but I don't believe they try to memorize every fingering of every chord voicing they come across. they probably put them in progressions or something or maybe some musical contexts so that it is easier to remember many voicings. Well , I don't know
If you know any interesting method for remembering many voicings resulting in ability to apply interesting voicings in songs, please let me know

any comments will be appreciated

Years ago, when I taught at Berklee, students had to learn two fingerings for certain chords each semester for proficiency tests. First semester, it was Maj7, Dom7, 9th, etc. Second semester it was Dom7b9, etc., along with two fingerings for descending minor line cliche (e.g., Amin, Aminmajor7, Amin7, Amin6), and ascending minor line chliche (e.g., Amin, Amin#5, Amin6). I found that they remembered the chords better if they applied them to tunes.
I started a simple database listing tunes by chord type. I have a simplified version of this database available at:
http://koka.phpwebhosting.com/~scarterfrogs/php/SelectChordTypes.php
So, if for example, you have a new fingering for dom7#9, check that chord off and click the button, and you'll get a list of tunes that use that chord. If, for example, you want tunes that use the descending minor line cliche, check off min(maj7), min7, and min6 and click the button -- you'll see a list of tunes with this progression.

If you are using Windows (or Mac with a Windows emulator), you can get the freeware version of my THoTH Music Learning Software (http://frogstoryrecords.com/), which provides a much more complete database, and more thorough searching.

I hope you find this of some help.

Steve

[derek]

Originally Posted by SteveCarter

Years ago, when I taught at Berklee, students had to learn two fingerings for certain chords each semester for proficiency tests. First semester, it was Maj7, Dom7, 9th, etc. Second semester it was Dom7b9, etc., along with two fingerings for descending minor line cliche (e.g., Amin, Aminmajor7, Amin7, Amin6), and ascending minor line chliche (e.g., Amin, Amin#5, Amin6). I found that they remembered the chords better if they applied them to tunes.
I started a simple database listing tunes by chord type. I have a simplified version of this database available at:
http://koka.phpwebhosting.com/~scarterfrogs/php/SelectChordTypes.php
So, if for example, you have a new fingering for dom7#9, check that chord off and click the button, and you'll get a list of tunes that use that chord. If, for example, you want tunes that use the descending minor line cliche, check off min(maj7), min7, and min6 and click the button -- you'll see a list of tunes with this progression.

If you are using Windows (or Mac with a Windows emulator), you can get the freeware version of my THoTH Music Learning Software (http://frogstoryrecords.com/), which provides a much more complete database, and more thorough searching.

I hope you find this of some help.

Steve

Steve, that is so cool. I teach part time, and love this, thanks man.

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by SteveCarter

Years ago, when I taught at Berklee, students had to learn two fingerings for certain chords each semester for proficiency tests. First semester, it was Maj7, Dom7, 9th, etc. Second semester it was Dom7b9, etc., along with two fingerings for descending minor line cliche (e.g., Amin, Aminmajor7, Amin7, Amin6), and ascending minor line chliche (e.g., Amin, Amin#5, Amin6). I found that they remembered the chords better if they applied them to tunes.
I started a simple database listing tunes by chord type. I have a simplified version of this database available at:
http://koka.phpwebhosting.com/~scarterfrogs/php/SelectChordTypes.php
So, if for example, you have a new fingering for dom7#9, check that chord off and click the button, and you'll get a list of tunes that use that chord. If, for example, you want tunes that use the descending minor line cliche, check off min(maj7), min7, and min6 and click the button -- you'll see a list of tunes with this progression.

If you are using Windows (or Mac with a Windows emulator), you can get the freeware version of my THoTH Music Learning Software (http://frogstoryrecords.com/), which provides a much more complete database, and more thorough searching.

I hope you find this of some help.

Steve

thanks steve

[opjazz]

Try to learn chord progressions instead of isolated chords/voicings. I once had some lessons with Jorge Degas (bass-player but an very good guitarist too) - he played a lot of progressions which sounded really nice. It was easy to remember the chords because the sound of the progression was good!
I have never had any good use of a too academic approach to chords simply because you miss the sound of chords working together.

[wizard3739]

Hiya Steve, I just visited your website and found it to be an excellent source of material for learning jazz guitar!

wiz

[rsclosson]

Has anybody used Mel Bay's Rhythym Chord System? Back when I was 18 (I mean way back! ) A friend gave me an old copy as a gift. It was at that time called the Orchestral Chord System for guitar. It totally changed my playing, and I mean in a good way.