Learning and improving my comping

[drksl]

Hi there.
Well, on the other day i tought about start to search for musicians do put my first band experience up. Yesterday, i don't know how, but it was by the force of some kind of god, some bassist sent me an email telling me that he was interested in exchanging some ideas. Then I went to myspace trying to find some of his music and I found it. The guy is just amazing. He plays really good, I was . And then he said that he had some drummer ready to go and gig at clubs and hotels. I'm really excited with the idea 'cos most of all, I can learn alot with these people, I can play and know really good musicians. So, I'd like to know some ways to improve my comping 'cos I don't want to wast their time.
I play some freddie green style chords, some 2 5 1, 2 5 1 6, and some 2 5 3 6 2 5 1 6, that kind of stuff. I rly like some simple walking bass lines too. But I'm rly starting jazz. oh, and I've noticed that I have some lack of rhythm sense. I'd really like to get some advices from you, 'cos i've been teaching myself, and i've just started playing 8 mounths ago.

For you help me based in something made by me, here is my first recording, and my first jazz recorded a couple of weeks ago: 4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download my first jazz.rar

Thanks in advance

ps: sorry my poor english

[FatJeff]

Actually, you sound pretty good. Your timing is not as bad as you say; you're pretty much in-time. Your basic chords are solid and your improvisation is not too bad (albeit a little safe).

For the comping part: try some different positions and voicings. The same voicings over and over can sound repetitive. Learn the first and second inversions of the chord shapes that you already know, and then "walk" them up the neck, especially on the longer chords. Also, if you're going to be playing with a bass player, you'll want to drop the root while you comp, so as not to step on his notes (which will be mostly 1 and 5). This is easily done with your existing chord shapes, just don't play the bottom note (only play the top 3 notes of the chord). Look into "upper structure triads" to inject some extensions and alterations with simple triads. This will help your comping sound much more hip. And another thing: learn basic tritone substitution for your ii-V-Is. It actually makes things easier to play, and when used judiciously, can sound very cool.

Have you given any thought to modulations yet? This is one of the most difficult parts of comping & improvisation IMHO, and is what really differentiates jazz from other styles of music. Playing thru a static ii-V-I is very valuable training, but when the tonic of the song changes from one key to another, are you capable of following it? This requires solid command of the fretboard (for example, if the song modulates to Ab, you MUST know where every single Ab on the neck is, and you should be able to say to yourself "Oh, Ab major? That's made up of Ab - C - Eb - G" within half a second).

Your improvisation is OK, but it could use some work (whose couldn't?). One thing I do hear is a lack of definition of the key center. You want to make sure to strongly outline the chord-of-the-moment with the notes you're playing at any given time. That means targeting the the 3rds and 7ths, and playing arpeggios. or, just embellishing a particular song's given melody, which will already have a good outline of the chords built into it.

When you're a little more solid with your improv, then start trying to add chromatic approaches to chord tones (the roots, thirds, fifths and sevenths). If you've taken my earlier advice and know how to overlay triads on the underlying chords to produce extensions, you could simply arpeggiate these same triads while improvising to add even more flair.

Transcribe solos. Find yourself a player whose sound you love (I'm partial to Hank Mobley and Miles Davis), and learn to play their solos. Extract the coolest licks from their solos and then write them down, and learn them in all keys. I cannot overstate how important this aspect of learning to play jazz is.

Best of luck and let us know how the practices and gigs turn out!

[drksl]

Hi! Thanks... Well I have a Jody Fisher's method (vol.1), should it be good idea to follow that book? My probelm is that I don't know what to study first, and what do study do reach some given point. Other problem is that I like a lot of things at the same time (jazz, blues, rock) and I end up with wasted time, jumping around a lot of things and learning zero. I'd like to put 2 more questions. Is there rly important read music sheet fluently? And last, I know that there are a lot of real books, but what tunes should I learn first? 'Cos real books have a bunch of 'em and I don't know how to start.

Stay cool

[derek]

Originally Posted by drksl

Hi! Thanks... Well I have a Jody Fisher's method (vol.1), should it be good idea to follow that book? My probelm is that I don't know what to study first, and what do study do reach some given point. Other problem is that I like a lot of things at the same time (jazz, blues, rock) and I end up with wasted time, jumping around a lot of things and learning zero. I'd like to put 2 more questions. Is there rly important read music sheet fluently? And last, I know that there are a lot of real books, but what tunes should I learn first? 'Cos real books have a bunch of 'em and I don't know how to start.

Stay cool

I have studied with Jody the past 6 years, and have most of his books. There are lots of books out there, as you point out, and Jody's is very solid. I would recommend you sticking with it until you work your way thru it. I agree you need to apply the stuff you are learning to RB tunes. Good luck.

[joe pass jr]

If you want to get better at comping.

Joe Pass
Jim Hall

Get some of their CD's. That will give you a life time's worth of chord study

[Bill C]

Originally Posted by joe pass jr

If you want to get better at comping.

Joe Pass
Jim Hall

Get some of their CD's. That will give you a life time's worth of chord study

I would add Ed Bickert to the list

[joe pass jr]

See, this is why I love the internet.

*starts googling Ed*

[fep]

My favorite book for learning comping is 'Payin Your Dues With the Blues - The Ultimate Source For The Blues And Jazz Guitarist' By Jay Umble.

His examples teach you both how to embelish the harmony and playing hip rhythms. This is the real stuff. And it's not just for the blues.

I create backing tracks in BIAB and cycle these rhythms paying close attention to note durations (really choke off those eigth notes). When you get locked these rhythms really groove.

I'm attaching a page of a couple of the first simple examples (it builds in complexity as you progress).

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by Bill C

I would add Ed Bickert to the list

I would add Kenny Burrell

[artcore]

To Fat Jeff, I would love to be able to do this!....
you should be able to say to yourself "Oh, Ab major? That's made up of Ab - C - Eb - G" within half a second.....How the heck do you learn this?
Did you memorize all the cord tones in every key???...I still count down in
my mind..but that takes a little more then a second...

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by artcore

To Fat Jeff, I would love to be able to do this!....
you should be able to say to yourself "Oh, Ab major? That's made up of Ab - C - Eb - G" within half a second.....How the heck do you learn this?
Did you memorize all the cord tones in every key???...I still count down in
my mind..but that takes a little more then a second...

I've been doing it for a couple of years now. It started with a music theory and ear training class. First I just learned 1-3-5-7 in 7 keys, and I drilled these 7 with flashcards until I just had it memorized:

C-E-G-B
D-F-A-C
E-G-B-D
F-A-C-E
G-B-D-F
A-C-E-G
B-D-F-A

These are of different quality. For example, C-E-G-B is a Maj7, but B-D-F-A is half-diminished (m7b5).

Then I learned how to do these for each quality, and for the intervening keys. If C-E-G-B is Maj7, then obviously C7 just lowers the 7th (1-3-5-b7) to become C-E-G-Bb. If A-C-E-G is dom7, then Ab-C-E-G is augmented seventh. To get to dominant 7th, lower the 5th: Ab-C-Eb-G.

It's all about intervals. 7th chords are nothing more than two triads superimposed in different ways. You might want to look into the idea of tetrachords and how they combine to form different scales.

[artcore]

Yeah, I see the advantage to this..I spend too much time counting in my
mind...Not thinking, looking at cords as shapes leads to not thinking of
cords as intervals..its somthing I'm working on..Another posting had a link
to a guy I never heard of "Fred Fried"..He is right on the money in how he
teaches and views the guitar..

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by artcore

Another posting had a link
to a guy I never heard of "Fred Fried"..He is right on the money in how he
teaches and views the guitar..

Is that the guy Wes Montgomery wrote "Fried Pies" about?

[nateroberts]

I would WHOLEHEARTEDLY second the reccomendations of listening to both Jim Hall and Ed Bickert. Really any album of the Paul Desmond Quartet has one of the two of them on it. Some of my favorites are Take Ten, Glad to Be Unhappy (both Hall), and Like Someone in Love - Live in Toronto (Bickert). This, to me, is some of the most beautiful comping I've ever heard. They really pay a lot of attention to voice leading and comp in a more pianistic way, rather than just inserting guitaristic voicings in predetermined "comping patterns." This stuff just knocks me out.

- nate
Nate Roberts Music

[drksl]

Thank you so much for the advices... it really helps someone showing us the road, when we're alone

[voelker]

i know im a little late, but to add to what fatjeff said, i memorized the entire C major scale in 3rds till i could repeat it over and over, CEGBDFACEGBDFACEGBDFAC, this is the same as what jeff did but it countinues so you know the 9th, 11th, and 13th. look at the first 5 notes, CEGBD=Cmaj9, look at 5 notes starting on G, GBDFA= G9, now i can spell any chord by adding a few sharps or flats

[Greg_Dubs]

Originally Posted by voelker

i know im a little late, but to add to what fatjeff said, i memorized the entire C major scale in 3rds till i could repeat it over and over, CEGBDFACEGBDFACEGBDFAC, this is the same as what jeff did but it countinues so you know the 9th, 11th, and 13th. look at the first 5 notes, CEGBD=Cmaj9, look at 5 notes starting on G, GBDFA= G9, now i can spell any chord by adding a few sharps or flats

Brilliant! I am going to do this. I was trying to think of easy ways to memorize chord spellings rather than memorize chord shapes because I thought it would make my playing cleaner and help with substitutions. Thanks!

EDIT- ooh, I see, this is for only C major/A minor family of scale tone chords.

~greg

[saponsky]

Originally Posted by Greg_Dubs

Brilliant! I am going to do this. I was trying to think of easy ways to memorize chord spellings rather than memorize chord shapes because I thought it would make my playing cleaner and help with substitutions. Thanks!

EDIT- ooh, I see, this is for only C major/A minor family of scale tone chords.

~greg

You can just add the accidentals to the appropriate notes and it would still work for every key.

[voelker]

Ya once u have it memorized then you need to know which ones are major 3rds and which are minor 3rds. Ex. A to C is a minor 3rd, C to E is a major 3rd, that means ACE is an A minor triad and if you want an A major triad, u raise the third, AC#E

[drksl]

Thats not late at all xD And thak you guys, there is a lot of good stuff here that is helping me out
That's a nice tip. Never thought that way. I use to think about drop 2 and drop 3 shapes, and sometimes I play other notes in the place of the 5th to get some color. Another thing that I'm having an hard task is to learn and learn how to use inversions. any tip?

Thanks,
CL

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by drksl

Another thing that I'm having an hard task is to learn and learn how to use inversions. any tip?

Thanks,
CL

Make sure you know which note in the inverted voicing is the root, then just use that as your "anchor".

[jeffstritt]

An easy way to kind of get started with inversions on guitar (Remember this is just the tip of the iceberg), is to keep the notes on the same string sets. So for instance start with a C Maj7 in the R573 voicing with the root on the a string. Then move each finger up to the next chord tone on that string, for example....

R573 CGBE
37R5 EBCG
5R37 GCEB
735R BEGC

Then try it with your other basic voicings like R735 from the 6th string, etc. and for all the chords in whatever tune you are learning.